WhoDeyRevolution

Inside Today's Bengals Sales Meeting

Today, at the PBS ticket offices...just before 4-game ticket packages went on sale.  Let's work on those up-sell opportunities!

Remember, the coffee is for closers only.

(Careful opening...language)

Deadline Looms For Remaining Season Ticket Balance

The remaining 80% balance for season ticket holders is due this Monday, June 1st. 

Has anyone delivered their money to the PBS coffers yet?  Anyone waiting until the last possible second?  Anyone going to drag it out until the first pre-season game?

How about waiting to pay until Andre Bait and Smith signs? 

Let's hear your thoughts in the comments. 

And guys, let's keep it clean...we're a family website here (just not appropriate for the Brown family).

More on UC vs the Bengals

Claims.  Counterclaims.  Awesome comments.  Lots has been said so far about the UC and Bengals situation but more clarification is needed.  So here goes:

We originally posted that UC and the Bengals are having some difficulty settling on two things:  1) Potential use of PBS and 2) An offer to build an indoor practice facility.

Bill Koch of the Enquirer spoke with UC official Bob Arkeilpane who played down any rumors.  You can read what we think of that article here.  The key points are the following:  1) Bob claims UC has not tried to move '09 games to PBS, 2) The Bengals approached UC about moving games there, 3) Discussions never got to the point of fees, 4) UC's desire is to play at Nippert, 5) UC is investigating the costs of renovating Nippert and 6) UC approached the Bengals about a practice facility but the Bengals did not express interest at this time.

Got that?

More recently, Lance McAlister outlined on his blog comments on this issue from a Bengals executive. 

The key points to this post are:  1) The Bengals offered UC the basically the same rent terms as UK/Miami, 2) The Bengals reached out to UC about the '09 WVA & Louisville games for NFL scheduling reasons, 3)The Bengals have been proactive towards UC but UC prefers Nippert to PBS, 4) The Bengals and Hamilton County split 50%/50% revenues from rent, suite sales, and parking for all "other events" held at PBS and 5) The Miami/UK game was negotiated with Brad Bates (Miami AD) for almost four years.

Got that, too?

(Lance also includes the fee schedule charged to Miami/UK for use of PBS which is really interesting but not relevant - it'll be for another post - to our discussion)

So what to make of these comments from UC and the Bengals?  Here is what WDR believes are the salient points:

1. Both sources confirm that the Bengals reached out to UC about playing games in '09 at PBS and UC was not interested.  UC preferred to play at Nippert and there is no reason to doubt that.  HOWEVER, the key point here is that these discussions both parties mentioned happened before the high cost of renovating Nippert was known.  At least, that is WDR's understanding of the situation.  The expenses required for renovation make PBS a more attractive option than UC originally believed so prior talks are not relevant.

2. In UC's statement, Arkeilpane claims the discussion for rent never reached the point of fees.  However, the Bengals (via Lance) claim they offered preliminary terms similar to the UK-Miami game.  This is inconsistent.

3. The only fees discussed by either party concern single game events:  UC v OSU (2002) and Miami v UK.  However, the pricing WDR is concerned with are for multiple games, where UC effectively "rents" PBS (more similar to the Pitt and South Florida arrangements we mentioned).  One would assume the pricing for single, big-name games versus multiple games would be different (quantity/quality discount).  This may help explain the discrepancy in the 5 times the normal rent claim in our original post:  we're comparing a single game price to a multiple game price. 

4. And why UK v Miami would be a relevant benchmark for fees charged to UC for multiple games is perplexing given the very different nature of their situations.  It is virtually impossible for Miami to attract BCS teams to play them at Yeager so if they want a marquee opponent at a home game they must look elsewhere (less negotiating leverage).

5. While the Bengals have disclosed their fees for one time usage of the stadium they do not, however, disclose if they make those using the stadium pay for the associated game day costs (such as security) which can be quite expensive.  Making the 3rd party cover those costs is equivalent to raising your fee so it's very important to find out that part of the story too.

6. Aren't you thrilled that the Bengals get to keep half of all the revenues for 3rd party events that have little to do with them?  Actually, I'll shut up, I should be grateful their lease doesn't give them the rights to all revenues for a stadium the county owns.

7. It took 4 years for the Miami v UK game to get arranged?  Is that a boasting point?  Cause that seems like a shockingly long time to negotiate use for one game.  Obviously a lot goes into that process but price is part of the element - so it seems the two sides were far apart on price for a loooong time.  Though that is admittedly speculation.

8. The indoor practice facility receives barely any attention - only an off hand comment from Bob Arkeilpane.  This issue has not been addressed at all.

So, in sum, while a lot has been said, not much of substance has emerged to refute our original post.  Both sides cleverly dance around the issue without hitting it head on.  So until we find out more about the PBS usage fees for multiple games and what talks are in motion regarding indoor practice facilities, we still see nothing to lead us to believe our original post needs to be materially updated.

If the issues are addressed head on, we'll back off.  But until then....

 

ps - now that the Bengals have disclosed their usage fees, WDR would love to solicit some help researching comparable fees at other publicly funded stadiums.  anyone who can find or help find this information please email us at whodeyrevolution@gmail.com

UC's Denial is Not Accurate

Last night, the Enquirer's UC beat reporter Bill Koch posted on his Enquirer blog a denial by UC of our report yesterday that the Bengals were driving a hard bargain with the university about leasing PBS for some upcoming UC football games.  Bob Arkeilpane, deputy director of athletics at UC and the administrator in charge of football said that UC will continue to focus its efforts on keeping games at Nippert Stadium and that WDR's report that the University was looking to play some of its games at PBS is "not accurate."

Koch explains that UC is investigating the costs of renovating Nippert and takes Mr. Arkeilpane at his word, summing the post up "So there you have it."

As Lee Corso would say, "Not so fast my friend."

First, Koch only talks to one UC official, who is clearly not going to go on the record to reveal confidential negotiations. Second, following our report yesterday, WDR has learned that the University officials were worried that the initial cost to renovate Nippert Stadium would be too expensive, perhaps over $150M. This knowledge was what prompted the meeting between UC and the Bengals as this cost was seemingly prohibitive for the university and they hoped by partnering with the the Bengals they could work out a mutually beneficial deal.  And regardless of what Mr. Arkeilpane wants you to believe, UC officials who participated in the negotiations with the Bengals did express that the Bengals asking price to lease PBS was five times the rate that South Florida and Pitt were being charged.

Lance McAlister talked to one booster (who is different than our source) and had this report:

Things I'm told
I talked with a major UC booster today concerning the Who Dey Revolution report linked below:
"I can't tell you if the asking price for UC to play a game at PBS is five times the rate that other Big East Schools are paying at NFL stadiums. I can tell you that from 2002 when UC hosted Ohio State at PBS to now, it's a significantly different contract presentation from the Bengals.....much more aggressive on the Bengals part"

That makes 2 independent UC boosters who have confirmed that the Bengals are being unreasonable with UC.  There is MUCH more to the story than Mr. Koch or Mr. Arkeilpane want you to believe.

Hopefully, UC is using this sunshine on the negotiations to bargain for a better deal from the Bengals, while denying the reports publicly as it could burn bridges.  No one is going to talk to the traditional journalists - or at least, not enough so they get enough confirmation they can report on it.

I hope that the traditional journalists who have better access investigate this further.

Regardless of the official statements of UC and the Bengals around this issue, the facts are that UC and the Bengals did talk about UC football playing more games at PBS and that the Bengals demands are unreasonable to the tune of 5 times more than what South Florida and Pitt pay.

Bengals Refuse to Partner with UC Over Use of Stadium; Rejects Funding for Proposed Indoor Practice Facility

Building off its run to the Orange Bowl last season and increased popularity, the University of Cincinnati Athletic Department has approached the Bengals about using Paul Brown Stadium for some of its 2009 home games.   UC proposed a financial arrangement similar to what other Big East rivals have worked out with their NFL counterparts, including the Buccaneers/South Florida and Steelers/University of Pittsburgh.

WhoDeyRevolution has learned from a high-level booster with knowledge of the negotiations that the Bengals would only let the Bearcats use PBS if they paid a rate that is over five times what the University of South Florida and University of Pittsburgh pay. 

WhoDeyRevolution has also heard directly from a UC booster who has offered to pay in full for an indoor practice facility located at PBS (to be used by UC and the Bengals) if the Bengals offer the University a competitive lease offer.  The Bengals have expressed that they have "zero interest" in paying for a practice facility at PBS or contributing to the one proposed at UC.  The Bengals have rejected this offer unless UC pays over five times the going rate for use of the stadium.

According to high-level officials in the UC Athletic Department, the Bengals have expressed that they may be interested in occasionally renting UC's indoor facility but would pay none of the construction or development costs.

The Bengals refusal to offer UC a reasonable price for using PBS is compounded by the team's generous lease agreement with Hamilton County over the use, revenues and expenses associated with Paul Brown Stadium.

The lease agreement between the Bengals and Hamilton County give the team effective control over the stadium's use by other organizations. 

Paul Brown Stadium was funded primarily by Hamilton County taxpayers.  After paying rent for 10 years, the Bengals will be able to play rent-free in the stadium starting this year until 2026.   Hamilton County must pay for any new technologies installed in 14 other NFL stadiums at PBS. While the Bengals pay for game-day operations (except in the last 9 years of the contract when the County pays for this too), stadium maintenance is covered by Hamilton County.  In the last 9 years of the contract, the county will "pay the Bengals "for any and all expenses of any nature whatsoever incurred by the Team relating to the Stadium Complex for the immediately preceding lease year."

The Bengals control net revenues from all ticket sales, club seats, suite rentals, game-day parking, adversiting and concessions. They received $102M in NFL Revenue Sharing in 2008 from the NFL TV deal. According to Forbes Magazine, the Bengals had a 2007 present value of $941M, 21st in the NFL, with revenue of $205M and an operating income of 22.0M.

Reds OK Amendment to Lease

Today, The Cincinnati Enquirer had an article introducing the brand new, hi-def video board that was installed at Great American Ball Park in the offseason.

What makes the article relevant to WDR is that the Reds agreed to amend their lease with the county.  The Reds are now totally financially responsible for the scoreboard and its upkeep.

The Reds will be responsible for the cost and ongoing maintenance of the displays, after Hamilton County commissioners voted Wednesday to amend the county’s 2003 lease with the Reds to make the scoreboard the team’s financial responsibility. Hamilton County owns the ballpark, and its lease with the Reds had made the county responsible for park components such as scoreboards.

The Reds are clearly committed to making the ballpark an engrossing, special experience for their fans.  Every year since Bob Castellini has taken over, there has been improvements to the stadium...from the hi-def video zone, to the riverboat in centerfield, to the Frontgate Furniture Suite, to an improved fan-zone.  I realize football games and baseball games differ drastically, but you have to respect the fact that the Reds are actively trying to protect and grow their fan base.

The Bengals video boards are outdated...and half the time they malfunctioned last season.  The Bengals should be addressing this issue, and yes even if it has to come out of their own pockets.  Paul Brown Stadium opened in 2000.  That is a lifetime in terms of technological advances in video screens. As the Reds found out, it actually could save the Bengals money in the long run because these boards are much more energy efficient (use only about 1/4 the amount of energy the older boards use).  

Again, this is just another example of how the Reds are rewarding their loyal fan base, while increasing their own revenues in creative ways.  In addition, they are being good civic partners with Hamilton County in these trying times.

Now, all of this would be a moot point if the Bengals had a decent sized scouting department, a GM with one singular vision for this football team, an indoor practice facility, and ownership that was dedicated to winning a Super Bowl.  Or just ONE of those items I just listed.  But the fact is the Bengals don't have ANY of those things, AND they don't treat their loyal fans with respect, AND they are lousy civic partners.  AND they have the worst professional record in all four major sports since 1991.

Who's ready for Opening Day?

Mike Brown and The Banks

Mike Brown made a surprise appearance yesterday at The Banks site as local and state officials were on hand for a tour of the project.

According to the stadium deal the Bengals signed with the county, the team has refusal rights to what can go to the right or left of PBS, up to certain distances.  It sounds like Brown is on board with the project, which can only stand to make his product better (anything is better than piles of dirt and a failing museum).  But, you never know what secret agenda he has hiding under that fedora. 

Check out the story and video from WLWT.  (Love when frosh House Rep. Steve Driehaus goes over to shake Mike Brown's hand.  I think Mike would have been more comfortable at a WDR Dance Party with Brosef Stalin on the microphone). 

Palmer Says Thanks

We have heard from the WDR nation and places like Lance McAlister's blog that an automated Carson Palmer is calling Bengals season ticket holders to thank them for re-upping in 2009.

According to reports, Carson relays the message that he will do everything he can to make the Bengals a surprise Super Bowl team in 2009 (or at the very least, Bill Cowher's favorite team).

UPDATE - Here is the audio (big thanks to fellow comrade Brendon)

Download VN00001-20090319-1806

Comrades, what do you think?  Would you have rather had another player?  Maybe Dhani Jones singing some country?  Or Andrew Whitworth doing a rap?

It's a nice touch by the Bengals...but the Bengals can send their season ticket holders crap in a box as long as they win 10 games next year. 

As Marvin (via Baghdad Hob) pointed out yesterday, it looks like the coaches around the league are taking notice of the new-look Bengals.

Completely Unverified (But Hilarious) Rumors About The Bengals

In reference to my previous column about the Bengals being the last team with an on-line account manager, Comrade Robert passed along this gem of a story.  We don't know if this is true at all...but it sure is funny.  And probably true.  (If anyone was selling copiers back in the mid 1990's, we'd love to hear from you).

Your post reminded me of something the team photographer told me over 10 years ago. It seems at one point in the mid nineties the team was in need of a new copier. At the time during the season teams would make a ton of copies each week for the game plan. So one year just before the season started Mike Brown had a local sales rep come in and demo the latest and greatest in copiers. At the end of the presentation the salesman offered to leave the copier for a week for the team to try out. After a week he calls and Mikey says he's still thinking it over and keeps the copier for another week. This goes on for about six weeks. About week 5 Mikey has another company come in and demo their copier. He has the salesman leave the demo unit in a different room and when the first sales man calls the following week Mikey tells him no sale and the guy comes and picks up the demo. Short story long Mikey screws over 4 different salesmen and gets to use high end copiers for an entire season for FREE! After the season ended all the salesmen had crossed paths and figured out they'd all been had and quit offering sales demos to the team for a while if at all.

Once Again, Bengals Management Resists Horrifying Technology

Back in the 90's, the Bengals were the last NFL team to launch a team website (apparently they didn't think this whole "Internet" thing would catch on).

Now, the Bengals are officially the last team to not offer an on-line account manager so season ticket holders (STH) can manage tickets from the comfort of their foreclosed homes.

WDR's crack investigational bureau visited the web sites of the other 31 NFL teams and confirmed a ticket account manager feature for every team (except the Bengals) that allows fans to pay their ticket invoices, check out ticket activity, forward tickets they cannot use to family/friends, even put up their tickets for sale on Ticketmaster's TicketExchange.

While the Bengals do allow STH to avoid the 42 cent stamp and pay via phone (Visa or Mastercard only!), they are still hung up with Ticketmaster in negotiations on allowing fans to be in control of their tickets.  A nice feature that is provided for EVERY OTHER SEASON TICKET HOLDER in the NFL. 

Now, I'm not going to just blindly assume the entire hang up is about money, but if EVERY OTHER NFL TEAM has figured out a way to provide their STH with an account manager, it's hard to believe that this whole deal doesn't come down to dollars and cents. 

Another part of this problem is the lack of bar coded tickets at Paul Brown Stadium, which would make it possible for fans to forward tickets to friends if they can't make the game, check out all ticket activity (great for companies to make sure employees or clients are actually using their tickets), etc.  Once again, the Bengals have refused to add this technology to help identify fake tickets, and give their STH another convenience. (One gate does allow for Bengals tickets bought on-line at Ticketmaster to be scanned and thus use the print-at-home feature...but this is for single-game tickets ONLY...and purchased ONLY at Ticketmaster).