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Who Dey Revolution Manifesto

  • Preamble

    IN THIS TIME of perpetual Cincinnati Bengals incompetence and futility, with zero playoff wins in the nineteen seasons since the WhoDeyRevolution Godfather, Paul Brown, passed away in 1991 and handed the team to his fortunate son, the Despot, Mike Brown;

    Introduction

    WE, the members of the Who Dey Revolution, in our fervent dedication to the Cincinnati Bengals and fanatical desire to transform our hometown team into perpetual Super Bowl contenders, call for a popular revolution of fans to demand comprehensive reform to the managerial decisions and approach of Cincinnati Bengals ownership, management, staff and players, and hereby call for the adoption of the following Who Dey Revolution Manifesto:

    Manifesto Demands

    THAT the Mike Brown, Katie Blackburn, Marvin Lewis, along with every other member of the Bengals management, staff and personnel, state publicly to all Bengals fans, “I will do everything in my power to help the Cincinnati Bengals win a Super Bowl;”

    THAT Mike Brown will hire a general manager, drastically expand the scouting department and relinquish all control of player personnel;

    THAT all training, rehabilitation and medical facilities are considered best-in-class compared to other NFL teams;

    THAT the management fill the team only with players who fit the system, both mentally and physically, and are not reluctant to makes changes to player personnel when needed, regardless of cost or loyalty concerns;

    THAT offensive and defensive line depth is considered the top priority for all player personnel decisions;

    THAT all decisions made by ownership, management, staff and players, both on and off the field, are judged only by this criterion: “Does this help the Cincinnati Bengals win a Super Bowl?”

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January 02, 2012

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This weekends game at Houston could be very interesting.

That said, we are approaching maybe one of the most important off seasons this team has had in a very long time.

A solid draft, maybe a smart FA pickup here or there and who knows. Next season will be more difficult for this team to repeat success. Especially if Mikey Boy makes some dome decisions this off season. We'll see.

In the meantime, I'm going to enjoy a playoff game that feels very winnable.

'dome' was supposed to be 'dumb'

should have proofread that one, which was dome of me

You realize that history was made yesterday, in that it was the first time in franchise history the Bengals won a wild-card tie-break procedure.

History would have to again be made next Saturday for the Bengals to win this playoff game: Not only have they not won a playoff game in 21 years, but the franchise has *never* won a road playoff game.

All-Time results on the road:
1970: At Baltimore Colts 17, Bengals 0
1973: At Miami Dolphins 34, Bengals 16
1975: At Oakland Raiders 31, Bengals 28
1982: Super Bowl, you know what happened
1989: Super Bowl, ditto
1991: At Los Angeles, Raiders 20, Bengals 10

So depending on whether you count the Super Bowl the Bengals all-time are either 0-4 or 0-6 on the road in the NFL playoffs.
In their seven home playoff games, the Bengals have a record of 5-3.

[This will be just the 15th post-season game in Bengals history.... I wonder why nobody put that in the futility numbers over on the right hand side of the screen, because it's pretty bad!]

chiefs lost?

This open letter is definitely addressed to the right two players: Peko and Whitworth. I liken to "good Soldiers" who are not interested in the business of managers or coaches, but only in the fight in the trenches. Its honorable, and I have much respect for both these players.

I think one of the largest reasons (other than MFB) that the Bengals have been continuously kick-starting throughout the past eight years is that they have been plagued by players who are "bad Soldiers"... more interested in talking, scheming, complaining and generally 'being their own dog'. Bad Soldiers don't have to be vocal or even obvious. Sometimes when you're a talented and respected member of a team, just being complacent or complicit in the face of negativity is enough to cloud the room and stifle drives and motivation.

Watching this season unfold, what I loved most was guys like Peko and Whitworth really change the culture of this team... contrast that with guys like Jonathan Joseph who literally quit this team last year. The amount that was offered to J-Joe by the Bengals was never made public, but I have to believe that no amount would have kept him in Cincinnati. The irony is that if he would have stayed on this team, there is really no telling how much better this team would have been this year.

I guess what I'm saying is that I hate quitters. Something old (and likely left over from high school) just burns in my guts when someone gives up on those around him. I would love nothing more than to win on Sunday, if only to give Jonathan Joseph something to sit on for the next eight or nine months - that the team he left for more money and a cheap-shot at a Super Bowl gets knocked out by the same group of guys that he couldn't bring himself to play with any more… after they stuck with him as a starter despite his first two rancid seasons in the NFL.

Screw him; I’m with Peko. WHO DEY!

@guttersnake: J Jo was "rancid"? He wasn't all pro but I think he led the team in passes defensed.

The guy left the franchise at a point where they just had their "franchise QB" quit and rehired a coach who went 4-12 (which doesn't happen in most other cities). He justifiably might have wondered whether if he signed a five year deal in Cincy if he'd play another five non-playoff years (although in hindsight that was wrong, obviously, but everyone acknowledges that this trip to the playoffs for the Bengals is like a gift from Santa)

Maybe he came to this site and looked at "by the numbers" explaining the futility under Mikey Boy? I can't blame him for deciding to go.

I'm wating for the people to call for the coaches head (again) when the Bengals likely go out on Saturday. "Coach Lewis should resign!" I can hear it now.

BTW, not his fault and it has never been fair to lay blame on him throughout his tenure. Just Blame Mikey Boy 'Mike' Brown -- and remember this in addition to not going against it and being a hypocrite. Oh Well. They BACKED INTO IT!

@ #DNOPBS - you know, as I was typing my last post, the devil on my shoulder had the exact same argument that you laid out. And you know what? I got nothing... you're absolutely right, and from his perspective, I can't find fault in the logic. Doesn't change my personal opinion about quitting. I fight professionally for a living. Its not the same, but there are many parallels. If I guy wants off the team, whether its Palmer or Joseph, you understand it and wish them well... but from a teammate's perspective, you won't forget that he left you.

And yes, I stand by Rancid. He did have some nice stats... on a team that was would have made this Bengals squad look like Pro Bowlers. You know the beer game that I mentioned earlier this season about buying a round of beers when Tate returns a ball for more than 15 yards? In 2008, it was if I could spot Joseph getting burned in a wide receiver's highlight reel, my buddy bought me a drink... I barely remember some games.

I'm really kinda sick... I want to hurt him because towards the end, I really liked the guy so much.

I like when the Bengals are in the Red Zone,
and they line Peko up at fullback,
and then he bulldozes T.Polamalu, and Benson scores...I like that

They have that play on YouTube...it's awesome

you all know my stance, but on the site we detail why caliming Cincy backed into the playoffs is nonsense. Here are some facts:

The Bengals did not lose to any teams that finished 2011 with a sub-.500 record, but the same cannot be said for many other AFC playoff participants. Baltimore lost to Seattle and Jacksonville, New England lost to Buffalo, Houston fell to the Colts and Panthers, and Denver was beaten by San Diego, Kansas City (twice) and Buffalo. The Steelers are the only other playoff team from the AFC that did not lose to a sub-.500 team in 2011.

New England, the top seed in the AFC, did not defeat a team in 2011 that finished with a winning record. All of their 13 victories came against teams that finished 2011 at 8-8 or below.

Houston’s opponents finished 2011 with a composite record of 116-140 (.453). By contrast, Cincinnati’s opponents finished 2011 with a composite 126-130 (.492). Denver actually had the highest winning percentage for opponents in 2011 at 131-125 (.511). The Bengals and Steelers were next at 126-130 (.492), followed by Baltimore at 121-135 (.472), and Houston’s 116-140 (.453). New England’s opponents bring up the rear with an embarrassing 108-132 (.421).

Of the 6 playoff teams, Denver, Cincinnati, and Pittsburgh had the most difficult journey. Not surprisingly, they are the three lowest seeded teams in the conference.

New England’s 13-3 record looks a lot less impressive when you look at their opponents. Their losses were to the 6-10 Bills, the 9-7 Giants, and the 12-4 Steelers. Their wins came against Indianapolis, Miami (twice), the Jets (twice), Buffalo, Kansas City, San Diego, Denver, Oakland, Philadelphia, Dallas, and Washington.


All of this means nothing really. The Bengals still need to win at Houston to prove they belong at all. it still has been a great season and making the playoffs is huge for any team. I just hate all the "they backed in" BS.

sorry, meant claiming not caliming...

@WhoDeyFans: kinda. it's important to look at point differential... when good teams play bad teams on average they blow them out. Pats have a huge point differential. Their expected W-L is 12-4. Bengals didn't blow out anybody. Their expected W-L is 8-8.

@#DNOPBS: The one thing I really agree with whysoserious about is that this isn't the BCS - blowing out bad teams isn't weighted any more impressively than a 1 or a 3 point victory. By continuing to degrade anything the Bengals have accomplished this year, your arguments look more and more like blind hatred and not rationed, reasonable discourse.

@guttersnake: Don't forget that Joseph was injured for most of his third season after finally playing like a first-round selection. Oh, and the marijuana arrest in early 2007 - not exactly a player you want to build a team around, regardless of how good he was on the field.

#DNOPBS - You also have to look at what was expected of this team. I would argue the Bengals did well this season for such a young team. Rookie QB throwing to a Rookie WR with a first year OC and no time to implement a system.

The Bengals should not have to apologize for beating the teams they were supposed to beat whether it was by 1 point or 100. The Pats failed to take care of business against some bad teams and have a couple loses that should have been wins.

I shake my head that you now bring up point differential when talking about wins or losses. The NFL game is a game of inches mostly. To win comes down to a couple of plays here and there. We can call them out easily in the games the Bengals lost and probably in some of the ones they won. If the Bengals beat the Texans by 1 point, does it not count to you because they didn't blow them out? Did the Steeler's fail against the Browns because the game was so close?

San Fran is a great team and they failed to blow out the Bengals.

Do not occupy you also have to look at the fact other than the second Pitt game the Bengals were never blown out by anyone. Sorry but you can't have it both ways you previously criticized me for saying they were never blown out in their losses but now are criticizing the fact they didn't have blowouts in their wins, can't have it both ways. Again this isnt the BCS it's not like if the bengals beat the patriots in round 2 the nfl is going to come out and say sorry NE advances because they had a better record.

I've had fun on this site always trying to play devils advocate in the past as "the truth" and now but ppl like Do not occupy are making this site worse when all they do is bash the bengals with no rational basis

The Bengals beat expectations, it was fun, I'm happy for them. I'm a fan - so let's get all that out of the way. I even think they have a good shot at beating the Texans.

But this shit about comparing us to the Patriots is ridiculous. We're 0-7 against playoff teams this year; they are 1-2. They also beat a lot of other borderline playoff caliber teams like the Cowboys, Eagles, Jets, that we'd not be favored to beat. We've got one nice win, against Tennessee. We made the playoffs by beating a bunch of shitty teams, and barely at that. Look, that's not easy to do, and they earned those wins...but if you really think we're as good as the Pats or the Steelers or the Ravens and have any chance to beat them on their field, you're just wrong.

We've made good progress this year and may even get a playoff win out of it. But let's not assume this has been a great year, or that we've turned some corner. We haven't beaten a single good team. The Colts were the worst team in the league and they beat the one +500 team we beat, and beat another team we couldn't. This team is not as good as the 2005 team or the 2009 team, each of which were very promising and led to big expectations for the following year. As I've said before, no other owner has demonstrated a stronger knack for ruining a promising team. Until I see otherwise, I have no reason to believe this will be any different.

I'm happy for now, excited for Saturday, and deeply skeptical about 2012 and beyond.

while I see a lot of the comments talking about scheduling and quality of wins/blowouts, you are all missing a glaring statistic:

This year the Bengals are 0'fer when playing against a playoff team. That ain't a good sign.

The only team they beat this year without a losing record was Tenn.

So I think we can beat Houston, but going beyond that would really be impressive/miraculous.

In addition, next year we're going to have a tougher schedule which means roster and managerial decisions need to be made wisely. Something the Brown family has lacked.

We won't take anyone by surprise anymore, which is maybe why every time the Bengals have a good year its followed by an equally shitty one.

If this doesn't make you want to puke, nothing will.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/02/pfts-postseason-awards/

Mikey Boy, NFL executive of the year?

This site is being overrun with fan boys without reading comprehension. You tried comparing NE the top seed in the AFC with the Mediocres. Which is wrong. Blowouts do in fact matter as a way to compare teams and make future predictions. This is well established. Read up at a place like Outsiders.

This year's Bengals: expected to suck. Instead are thoroughly middle of the pack in almost every indicator imaginable. Hence not real exciting as playoff entrant. Is that rocket science?

Mike Brown mismanaged the team back to the point of expected suckitude and now gets Kudos for producing mediocrity. From y'all and the media! You've been snookered. He did all thatwith the team not even winning one game against anybody but dregs.

So do not occupy does that mean Pittsburgh has no chance to beat Baltimore since Baltimore smacked the crap out of them in week 2?? The only thing that matters in the NFL is "w's" everything else is gravy. NE slaughtered everyone when they went 16-0 only to lose to Eli in the Super Bowl. That Sunday all the points they scored weeks 1-16 meant nothing.

How exactly have we been snookered?? None of us on here are saying they will win the Super Bowl but we are relishing in the fact that this team surprised us all and made the playoffs when "super teams" like Dallas, Philly, and San Diego are sitting at home. Are the bengals a top ten 5 team of course not but only 10 teams out of 32 make the playoffs so by default they did better than 21 of those teams.

Who compared them to New England? The reading comprehension is on you my friend. The argument was that you put NE on a pedestal but they have failed to beat a team with a winning record all season.

You can't use the argument when it works for your point and then ignore it when it does not.

I don't think the Bengals can touch New England. But not because of the stats you are tossing out.

You're being snookered in that you appear to think the Bengals are "competitive" and improving when the evidence still quite thoroughly says blind squirrel finding a nut. If this team starts beating good teams and blowing out bad ones that'd be a sign. Again, not rocket science in most NFL cities.

Know what math all other NFL cities would agree with? Making playoffs=good, not making playoffs=bad. Pretty basic to me. So I'll take the fact that they made the playoffs as a good sign and see what they do in the offseason before making any judgments vs just saying they suck

I'm also trying to follow the logic that a team that goes from 4-12 to 9-7 and the team is somehow worse

WDR faithful can continue trying to find statistics proving the playoff bound Bengals are not good. The rest of us will cheer for a potential playoff victory for our team and a season the overachieved by any strech of the imagination.

You both are correct.

First, The Bengals had a winning record this year because they played 9 games that were winnable. They won them all. The seven games where they faced tough match ups, they lost. This doesn't say that they are great or suck, it says they are right were they should be if they are building a young team for the future. From my vantage, it appears they are. It is WAY too early to tell if they are going to be terrible or good next year. If the schedule were different this season and played 7 winnable games and won them all; it would mean the same thing.

This team is comparable to the 2004 team with Palmer in his first season under center. Comparing those two teams, Marvin now has upgraded coordinators (not great but a lot better than Bresh & Bratkowski), upgraded specialists (TE, WR - when 100% healthy - we are really missing Shipley), better run defense (but it still needs improvement), and a very good pass rush. The QB spot appears to be just as talented as the 1st year QB we watched in 2004; the RB's are about the same; the secondaries are about the same (with Hall in the lineup - now it's a downgrade with him out). The OL is the only major downgrade in comparison from 2004 since it has gone from one of the best to above average. If they focus on the spots that need to be upgraded, then this team has a chance at being good in the coming seasons.

If Mike and/or Marvin, shit the bed this offseason then they aren't getting any better anytime soon. The past few off-seasons have been mostly positive for them (yes there were fails), but now this coming one is more critical for them to take the next step. They have been hanging on the edge of mediocrity for most of Marvin's tenure as he had to battle untimely injuries, mental illnesses, and the consequences of selecting players with bad histories. All this talk of Marvin hasn't beat a playoff team most of his tenure is crap. He hasn't had a good team since 2005. How the hell is one supposed to win if you have a team that doesn't match up well to the competition?

Second, the Pats are not that good of a team and either are the Steelers. Both are products of their schedule. Like the Bengals, when they both faced tough opponents that matched up well they got beat. The Steelers lost by double digits in two of their games when they were man-handled by the Ravens and 49ers. I think the Steelers make it out of the 1st round, but if they play the Ravens they are not going any further. Since the Pats defense is terrible, a Steelers-Pats game may turn into a shoot-out or a sack fest.

The playoffs are completely different than the regular season. In the regular season, you have emotional highs and lows, weeks that teams don't focus, etc. which give you odd results like the Browns upsetting the Pats last year. All of those factors are gone in the playoffs. It now comes down to who has the best team and who can make the big plays to win. From what I have seen, the Ravens are the best team in the AFC. They have a good defense, a good OL, good specialists, and a QB that (if he has the time in the pocket) can win you the game. The Texans are a serious sleeper; even without their starting QB. They have the best defense, the best OL, and the best skill positions with Johnson in the lineup. If their QB can play to not lose the game (Dilfer-ball), then they could win the AFC title.

Even though I think the Bengals are fighting an uphill battle this weekend that they are destined to lose, I too am going to cheer them on.

@WhySoSerious: You seriously cannot read.

In Baltimore making the playoffs and losing is considered failure. In San Diego it got one very famous coach fired. In many other cities one and done is intolerable. Such as in Green Bay. Incidentally the Packers are about as young as the Bengals are. So they don't have that excuse nor would they accept it.

In this city, a season of beating doormats in close games and losing to playoff teams is considered such a miracle that Mike Brown gets awards. It is enough to make somebody puke. He set the bar so low that even he can jump over it. Mike Brown wins! Without winning. At least so far.

It would be great if they win on Saturday. Historic even, as someone said. Let's see some evidence of not same-old same-old. That would be the first piece of evidence.

I would really love it if the Bengals would play this game as if they have nothing to lose. Marvin always strikes me as the kind of coach who will be conservative even when there's no reason not to be wild riverboat gambler man. The Bengals are playing with the House's money. Haven't beaten a playoff team since about week two of LAST year. Haven't ever won a road playoff game. Playing a team with a rookie QB that has never been in the playoffs. So go crazy Marvin and Jay. Let it all hang out. Have fun with it.

Run a reverse on a punt or kickoff return? Heck even Tom Landry did that on the first return of a Super Bowl.
Call an onside kick in the middle of the game? The Saints did that in the Super Bowl.
Throw a halfback or wide receiver pass? The Steelers did that against the Bengals in 2005, didn't they? And it worked great. Can Andrew Hawkins throw?
Have Gresham streak down the middle of the field toward the post? For the Bengals that's basically a trick play ever since Rodney Holman left.
Flea flicker? Heck yeah!
Anybody remember when James Brooks averaged 12 yards per pass reception? Is there any reason why Bernard Scott isn't doing that? Something is wrong with the offensive scheme if you cannot figure out how to get the ball to Bernard Scott or Andrew Hawkins in the open field and let them try to outrun some dudes.


@#DNOPBS: You're cherry picking stats again - yes, the overall age of the Packers is not significantly higher than the Bengals, but their skill position players are much more experienced, both in the league and in the system that they play in, than the Bengals, who, as has been mentioned to you REPEATEDLY, are working with a first-year offensive coordinator who had no offseason to install his offense (@occam - that's why they aren't throwing more trick plays in there or getting the ball to Scott or Hawkins in the open field; they're keeping it to what has worked/is working), all with a rookie quarterback and rookie number one receiver to boot. Green Bay has the best quarterback in the league, hands down, an elite number one wide receiver in Jennings and a deep receiving corps (Bengals, you can argue, have an elite wide receiver, but their best possession receiver has been injured basically the entire season), plus one of the best cornerbacks of all-time, who at approximately 87 years old is still better than any defensive back on the Bengals not named Leon Hall. Joe Philbin, the Packers' OC (had to look that up), has been able to, with the assistance of Ron Wolf and Mike McCarthy, select players that fit his system, while Jay Gruden inherited players who have never played in his system before. He, Dalton, and Green were all thrown into the fire, and when you look at it that way, it's hard NOT to consider this season a success.

Yeah the Bengals have a first year coordinator because after years and years of failure from Bratworst they fired him. Unlike other cities where failure is not accepted as it is here. In other cities 4-12 coaches get fired. In other cities coordinators who put out well-below average units get fired. In other cities General Managers who field squads that never win playoff games get fired. Here it's an impossiblity which this Site was supposed to work to fixing. Instead they've got you all practicing excuse making. Obi Brown has taught you well.

@DNOPBS, you know that is bullshit. On other teams around the league, mediocrity happens all the time. This is a business about making money, and being mostly decent is good enough.

Look at the Jets, they have a 1st round bust of a QB, an offensive coordinator that beats himself now that their OL can't overcompensate for their weaknesses, and I wouldn't be surprised if they keep them both for at least one more year. What will be interesting to watch is if they allow the degradation of their OL to continue this offseason by focusing on the specialist positions instead. The only reason they are considered a let down this year is that their coach is an idiot in making predictions. Jeff Fischer, who is a hell of a coach, had how many seasons of mediocrity before they finally let him go?

I agree with you on Brat. I was calling for Brats head after the 2006 season. Brown held on to Brat way too long. By allowing Marvin to hand pick his offensive coordinator this season, is a small glimmer of hope that things are changing in PBS. This offseason will be really telling if that trend continues.

If Gruden's play calling doesn't improve next season, I will be calling for his head. This year he gets a pass since he had 60 days to install an offense which is why it has been like watching a high school football game most of this season. If they don't expand the playbook next year, people are going to figure them out really quick. But for his first year, coming in to the shortened pre-season, I think he did a pretty good job with what he had to work with.

Do not occupy just keeps making himself look dumber and dumber with every post, have you even watched football? No coach in the nfl gets fired after one 4-12 season I'd live you to name me a single coach in the last 10 years that was fired the year after making the playoffs for having a losing record. You mention San Diego earlier firing their coach that was due to fact that he and the GM were at each others throats not his playoff record.

Do us a favor and either A start actually watching the NFL or B go to some other site to spew your mindless dribble. This site is here to protest MB not just trash the Bengal team 24/7 no matter what

While most ppl on this site offer great constructive criticism if the bengals abs point out the flaws in management and their over team plan it's ppl like DNOP both on here and out in this area that honestly piss me the f'n hell off. No matter what the bengals do all they do is focus on the bad and bitch and moan. Prime example of this and one I'd be willing to bet DNOP has done as well. Ray rice took advantage of a great block and a defensive mistake and ran for a 70 yard TD. Ppl like DNOP will
tell you about how much the bengaks defense sucks and how a "real" team would fire its DC after that play. Well let's look, the bengaks are 10th against the run in the NFL not a bad ranking, but instead of seeing that those fans would have you convinced they are the worst defense in the league.

DNOPS -

Lets take your logic about success...

Last 3 seasons for New England:

– 2011: Patriots (#1 seed) lose at home to Jets, 28-21
– 2010: Patriots (#3 seed) lose at home to Baltimore, 33-14
– 2009: missed playoffs

So, is Bill on the hotseat? Again, I am not comparing the success of the Pats to that of the Bengals. It is simply pointing out how you cherry pick. But please, post some more, the more you do the less your arguments hold water.

I think the broader point about bringing Marvin back after a 4-12 season is that he's been here since 2004 and hasn't won a playoff game. Generally, at that point for most franchises, the pressure would be on and you'd need a good year to stay on. Instead, 4-12, and he's brought back. I think the only reason he was retained is that there weren't really any good prospects out there.

The points about the Jets and Jeff Fisher being just like us is a little silly. The Jets just made two consecutive AFC title games. We haven't made one in over two decades. Jeff Fisher came within a yard of winning the Super Bowl. 2005 is the closest we've come to that in the Marv/MB era, and we didn't even get out of the first round that year.

Whysoserious, you're missing the point. People here aren't focusing on the bad. We're focusing on the important stuff - the stuff in the left column of the page. That stuff hasn't changed. Our problem is that a lot of commenters - you, Wyatt, WhoDeyFans, etc. - are focusing on the fact that our mediocre team has beaten a lot of bad teams. Look, that's great. I'm also happy we're in the playoffs. I also enjoyed this season. But I remained focused on the broader big picture stuff that will allow us to win consistently, rather than occasionally, and challenge for a Super Bowl, which we're not going to do this year. You know that.

I'm pleased as punch that we're in the playoffs, but we still have rampant nepotism in the front office, no GM, an inadequate scouting department, inadequate training facilities, numerous criminals and head cases in the line-up, an on and on. Let's remain focused on that stuff since it could actually help us win a super bowl, and not get distracted by a flash in the pan season against a cupcake schedule since that won't help us win the super bowl.

We've got a decent quarterback (I disagree that he's as good as Palmer pre-injury, but he's clearly serviceable), a great WR, a competent OC, a great young defense and DC, and all the tools to succeed IF management doesn't screw it up. But management has screwed up better situations before (see 2005), and based on all that stuff in the preceding paragraph, there's no reason to believe they can't do it again. That stuff has to change as a precondition to sustainable, serious success.

Talking about all this is not "focusing on the bad," it's being a real fan.

Dan I never said ppl need to be sunny and roses on this site they isn't what it's for. That said there is a drastic difference between your post and DNOP and that is what I'm getting at. There is cautious optimism (you) and flat out " I'm going to find ways to bad mouth this team facts be damned" like DNOP.

And for the love that is all holy can we can this "cupcake" schedule crap!! It has to be the most ignorant thing being posted on this site. There is no such thing as a cupcake schedule in the NFL ask any NFL team and they'll tell you that. NE hasnt beaten a team with a winning record does they mean they are as bad as the bengals????

Plenty of good teams have made the playoffs and won superbowls with similar schedules as the bengals had this year. The 2005 steelers had a VERY similar nearly identical run as this bengal team, does there Super Bowl not count???

Come on Whysoserious. The Bengals had a cake schedule. Of course, its not their fault. But they did. And the 2011 regular season is over.

Lets hope that the Bengals can pull of a miracle in this post season. Anytime you make the playoffs, you have hope. It is a new season. And #14 and his receivers appear to be the real deal.

Maybe we can be this years version of the 1969 Miracle Mets. Its really the only chance we have. All the Bengal problems of the last 21 years remain. But anything can happen in the playoffs. GO Bengals!

P.S. Marvin Lewis should have been fired last year for a plethora of reasons. The 4-12 record last year being the final nail in what should have been his coffin as head coach. I'll never forget his icing his own kicker in a home game against PITTSburgh back about 2006.

For those of you calling for Marvin's job (Bob F., Dan R., #DNOPBS), why?

No, seriously, why?

No, he's never won a playoff game, and yes, he's a terrible clock manager and gets overly conservative with his offense far too early in the game which has led to multiple losses, but if you look at what he's accomplished since arriving here in 2003, compared with any of the Bengals' head coaches since Paul Brown died, and especially considering how shitty the management has been, I think it's asinine to call for his termination (even retroactively, as you are doing).

This is his third trip to the playoffs in 8 years; Paul Brown is the only other Bengals coach to make the playoffs three times, and he was 0-3 as a coach in playoff games. Marvin is the only coach in the Mike Brown era to even sniff the playoffs. I see Dan mentioned the composition of the line-up, and to that, I'd point out that it was Marvin Lewis who wanted Chris Henry cut from the team, but it was Mikey Boy that overruled him. Also, remember that the "TOcho" show (the on-field component of it), which has been pointed out numerous times here on WDR as being one of the reasons 2010 was such a failure, was a scheme by Mikey Boy to sell tickets after his disastrous signing of Antonio Bryant. Factor that in with the fact that Andy Dalton is the Bengals' starting quarterback this season and not Ryan Mallett, and I think you can see that progress is being made, however incremental it may be. Believe me, I was as deflated as the rest of you when I saw Marvin's re-hiring press conference, but I think this season, in some of the minor changes that have been made, is proof that he hasn't been as Bengalized as that press conference led us to believe.

Also, please don't mistake my optimism over a season that finished with three times as many wins as I anticipated to mean that I'm satisfied with where this team is at. I'm still firmly ensconced in the WhoDeyRevolution, but I'm not willing to find fault with this team when they've clearly overachieved this year. Yes, they had 8 wins against bad teams and 1 against a decent team, but before the season started, I honestly didn't expect them to even beat the bad teams, and after losing to traditionally-bad-over-the-past-few-years Denver and San Francisco in weeks 2 and 3, I thought my three-win prediction was certainly on the mark (if not overly optimistic). However, 14 weeks later and they're in the playoffs and that's not something anyone, anywhere, predicted. If you can't enjoy that, and can continue to only find fault, then you're not a fan of the Bengals - you just like to complain.

Also, Bob F, did you not see the comment where WhoDeyFans pointed out that the Bengals had the third toughest strength of schedule of the six teams that made the AFC playoffs? That means Baltimore, Houston, and New England all had more "cupcake" schedules than the Bengals, but no one is decrying their route to the playoffs or saying that they "backed in".

Let me put it to you guys another way - would you rather be the Bengals, who didn't beat a playoff team all year but also didn't lose to a sub-.500 team all year and made the playoffs, or would you rather be Buffalo, who beat two playoff teams but lost to a handful of sub-.500 teams and didn't make the playoffs?

Again, don't mistake my defense of this season with an admission that I'm happy with the team's current status. There are still far more wrongs than rights with this team, but, based on the baby steps that I've seen them take as an organization in the past twelve months, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt (meaning I'll wait to see how this offseason plays out) before I toss them into the rubbish bin.

Oh, and one other thing regarding Marvin - if he HAD been fired after last season, Jay Gruden would be the Bengals head coach, and Bob Bratkowski would still likely be the offensive coordinator. Either that, or Bobby B would be the head coach...I don't know about you, but that's not a world I want to live in.

Ugh. This week's disturbing sign that Mike Brown will find a way to fuck up this promising young team: he's too fucking cheap to shell out a measly $5K to let them practice indoors.

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/bengals/2012/01/04/bengals-outdoors-for-second-straight-day/

Oh well, I can see why. It's not a big game or anything. It would only be our first playoff win in over two decades.

@Wyatt,

I didn't really say I think he should be fired, or that he should have been. I was just defending DNOPBS for, I think rightfully, pointing out that for most franchises he would have been fired for going 7 straight years without winning a playoff game. Most franchises would need to see results in a smaller window.

I've said before, I think Marvin is a good talent scout, a good motivator, and a good leader to players. He's a horrible clock manager, bad decision maker (i.e. punts on 4th and 1 at midfield), bad game planner (both pre-game, and in-game adjustments) and just generally better practice coach than game coach.

Overall, I think he's an average coach, and given what he has to put up with from management, he's probably the best we can hope for. He'd do better to take a more hands-off approach and let Jay/the QB handle the offense - he's clueless there.

Should he have been fired? Sometimes coaching changes aren't necessarily about bringing in someone better, but just moving on and a necessary change of scenery. Also, showing the fans you're committed to winning. You fail to win a playoff game for 6 straight years, then go 4-12...you gotta move on. We waited and negotiated though, so like I said, there wasn't really a better coach out there. The bigger move that needed to be made was a new OC; one that could work with a new QB. On that, we seem to have hit a home run, and Marv deserves a fair bit of credit for that.

This board is no different than the Bengals.com board.

Just guys bickering back and forth trying to prove their point.

This site (which has DISAPPEARED) should be focusing on some kind of Project Mayhem to inspire a SMART off season. "Don't screw it up again Mike Brown". Or whatever...

Instead, it's a post every 2 weeks and then guys bitching at each other. (Which I've also probably done)

@Whysoserious: I've got you on ignore. Mike Brown loves your kind though.

@WhoDeyFans: Yeah Marvin Lewis and Belichick are exactly the freakin' same. THis must be rocket science to distinguish them, or maybe we need a DNA test they're so similar.

Darn DNOP put me on ignore what will I do? I have to agree with Tjans this site has changed. It always got quiter during good seasons which is expected, but ramps up again in the offseason. However now it's turned into a mess where ppl flat out bash the bengals and just go on and on about how they suck and we're sheep for hoping they win Saturday. It's to the point where me as a MB hater is being told I'm
A sheep and a MB lover just because I root for a victory. Did I miss something, when did this site go from Bengal fans wanting change to create a lasting successful team to a site where no matter what the bengals do we bitch and moan and say how much we hate them??

Nice response DNOP, I use your point against you and you have nothing. You have been calling people out for reading comprehension, did you read when I wrote this:


I don't think the Bengals can touch New England. But not because of the stats you are tossing out.

or this:

I am not comparing the success of the Pats to that of the Bengals.


Two things:

@whysoserious: "teams make playoffs=good
Teams that don't= bad"

It's not that simple, easy schedule (i.e. bengals or horrible division i.e. broncos)

The outdoor practice is getting ridiculous now dalton has the flu

Actually it is that simple. Good or bad the Bengals however small have a chance to win the Super Bowl what chance do the Eagles have? Can't win if you're not in the playoffs

Did I just read the word "Bengals" and the phrase "chance to win the super bowl"?

Whysoserious = Areyouserious??.

Anyhow I converted to being a Raiders fan and yeah Carson didn't make the playoffs and Andy did. However........ Read this.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/01/05/SP2Q1MLI05.DTL

One underachieving season of Bresnahan is apparently enough for even the Raiders. Oh, and they probably won't hire a new defensive coordinator until they HIRE A NEW GENERAL MANAGER.

I'm not comparing the two teams or the level of talent. Frankly if management was equal the Bengals SHOULD have a better future than the Raiders. But, firing dissapointing coaches, hiring General Managers, specifically targeting personnel people from Baltimore, a perennial draft day champ, thats good stuff.

On a talent level the Bengals are younger and have a better future, on a management level they are 41st, behind 31 other nfl teams and at least 10 quality college programs.

To clarify I'm not knocking Bengal players or fans and pumping up anything Raiders. I am pointing out that both franchises were considered among the worst manged in the league. The Raiders as an organization will move forward and improve. Bengals management is content with this season and at selling "next year".

The only thing that has changed in Oakland is the passing of the owner. I wish all of you the same good fortune!!

When you preview a post can WDR add an edit button? iPhone spell check is very primitive.

DNOPBS is just some sad sack Steeler fan/rapist supporter trolling this site. I don't know how else he could claim to be a fan of the team but hate Mike Brown and still spew venom at every single facet of the organization.

I don't hate Marvin Lewis or any of the players or coaches. It's pretty clear that they go out there and try their hardest to win games, even if they screw up sometimes. But I really hate management and want them to be forced out or required to run the team in such a way that they become a model franchise. It's not an easy position to explain to most people, but that doesn't mean it's wrong.

JM:

I don't know if I'd use Bresnahan as an example of a smart move Oakland is making since they were the ones dumb enough to rehire him after firing him as DC years ago. I'd almost rather be the team known for holding onto a bad coach too long then for rehiring one everyone knew was bad. I'll be interested to see what happens in Oakland now that Davis is gone so will most Bengal fans and Dallas fans as well. The sad thing is here we prob won't be as lucky. Davis's kids didn't really handle the day to day or have any desire to, Mikey boy is grooming Katie to take his spot so my bet is she becomes GM when he's done. When that happens though I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and give her a chance to show that even if she's GM she'll out experienced NFL ppl around her not high school coaches.

Also JM you missed the point of my last post. I wasn't saying I honestly thought the bengals will make the Super Bowl this year but pointing out even if they only have a 20% chance that's still more than the 0% teams not in the playoffs have

I've had to memorize all the northwoods-inspired names for all the beats.

Plus I always had a homeroom and all the paperwork that entails.

Skimming Hob's articles last night looking for fodder and I came across this little bit. Whitworth pulled Peko aside in the locker room when word

Dies ist eine spannende Quelle der Erkenntnis, ich bin froh, dass ich diesen Artikel zu lesen. Ich werde bald wieder zurück sein, um mehr zu sehen, die Sie haben.

Danke für die Informationen in diesem Blog. Die Veröffentlichung an dieser Stelle ist sehr cool und auch interessant. Ich hatte den ganzen Blog zu lesen und ich kam zu viele Dinge, die ich nicht kenne, bevor wissen. Ich bin mir sicher, dass die Besucher, die diesen Ort besuchen werden auch in den Genuss Lesen der Beiträge. Warten auf neue Beiträge von dir in dieser Website veröffentlicht. Einmal mehr haben Sie Ihre Exzellenz und Effizienz in diesem Blog work.Keep es bewiesen.

This year he gets a pass since he had 60 days to install an offense which is why it has been like watching a high school football game most of this season.

You would be a worst grammarian than Baghdad Hob, himself. Completely incorrect usage of "worst" in comparing only two things (in this case, myself and Mike Brown).

Nice to be here and see your post!

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    Bengals Futility - By The Numbers

    • 20 - Years since the Bengals have won a playoff game

      0 - Total number of playoff wins in Mike Brown's tenure as owner

      .359 - Bengals regular season winning percentage since Mike Brown took over as owner (115-206-1 in 20 seasons)

      29-34-1 - Record since 2005 playoff game vs Steelers

      6 - Seasons the Bengals have lost their first six games since 1991. No other team has more than two.

      0 - Teams North of Cincinnati without an indoor practice facility

      10 - Players arrested in a 14 month span from 2005-2006

      32 - Mike Brown's ranking, out of 32, of the "Best Owners in the NFL" by Michael Silver of Sports Illustrated in 2007

      458,000,000 - Amount, in dollars, that Hamilton County Taxpayers paid to build PBS

      2032 - Year that Hamilton County will have finally paid off its debt on the stadium deal

      3 - Total number of non-clerical employees employed in the Bengals scouting department, lowest in the league

      747,000,000 - Amount, in dollars, paid in free agency by the Bengals from 1994 - 2005, second worst of all 28 teams in existence for the duration, behind only Arizona

      118 – Ranking, out of 118 professional teams, of the “Worst Franchises” in professional sports, as ranked by ESPN the Magazine in 2003.

      97 – Ranking, out of 98 general managers in all four major sports with three or more years of experience, of Mike Brown’s performance as a GM, as ranked by Forbes in 2007.

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