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Who Dey Revolution Manifesto

  • Preamble

    IN THIS TIME of perpetual Cincinnati Bengals incompetence and futility, with zero playoff wins in the nineteen seasons since the WhoDeyRevolution Godfather, Paul Brown, passed away in 1991 and handed the team to his fortunate son, the Despot, Mike Brown;


    WE, the members of the Who Dey Revolution, in our fervent dedication to the Cincinnati Bengals and fanatical desire to transform our hometown team into perpetual Super Bowl contenders, call for a popular revolution of fans to demand comprehensive reform to the managerial decisions and approach of Cincinnati Bengals ownership, management, staff and players, and hereby call for the adoption of the following Who Dey Revolution Manifesto:

    Manifesto Demands

    THAT the Mike Brown, Katie Blackburn, Marvin Lewis, along with every other member of the Bengals management, staff and personnel, state publicly to all Bengals fans, “I will do everything in my power to help the Cincinnati Bengals win a Super Bowl;”

    THAT Mike Brown will hire a general manager, drastically expand the scouting department and relinquish all control of player personnel;

    THAT all training, rehabilitation and medical facilities are considered best-in-class compared to other NFL teams;

    THAT the management fill the team only with players who fit the system, both mentally and physically, and are not reluctant to makes changes to player personnel when needed, regardless of cost or loyalty concerns;

    THAT offensive and defensive line depth is considered the top priority for all player personnel decisions;

    THAT all decisions made by ownership, management, staff and players, both on and off the field, are judged only by this criterion: “Does this help the Cincinnati Bengals win a Super Bowl?”

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December 04, 2011


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Bungles getting crushed.
So who have they beat this year that's any good? Buffalo? Are we gonna hang our hats on Tennessee? Seattle?

p.s. And all that crap about "he has arisen" -- is a shame even *this* site falls for the Koolaid.

Here's another one for the NUMBERS for Bengals futility

14-41-1 Marvin Lewis' record (0.259 winning percentage) vs playoff teams (counting 0-5 for the futility this year vs Steelers, Ravens, Broncos, 49ers)

1 out of 9: Number of times Marvin Lewis' teams have had a winning record vs playoff teams in 9 seasons (2003)

hahaha! what a joke. this game was PROOF, once again, that this team and franchise oozes a losing culture.

The first half sealed this game:

TD to Gresham, FALSE START

FG to at least take a lead and positive from drive, DELAY OF GAME!???? Seriously?

Driving into Steeler territory again, score 0-0, HOLDING, drive stalls.

HUGE pass interference call on Crocker (who sucks)

FUMBLED kickoff return after it's 14-0.

After getting the ball back, down 21-7, 3 and out and ANOTHER FUCKING penalty. They punt, it's returned for a TD. 28-7.

Game. Set. Match by halftime.


Oh, right, and I forgot. After the delay of game for the FG, the next one gets blocked.

Green is awesome, Dalton looks to be really solid.

Doesn't matter. Mike Brown, is a loser and it bleeds throughout this team.

But how about those Raiders, huh? Carson Palmer lands on another Bresnahan-No-Defense team, and throws a pick six just to make sure they get crushed. And they go to Green Bay next week!

I don't understand how no one is criticizing the officiating. There were so many questionable calls that had a huge effect on the game. Here are just 3:
(1) Pass interference on Crocker for running into whatever Steeler wideout was there. This one could be argued either way, but 40 yard penalties should be clear cut.
(2) Ben 1st Pass TD to Wallace, Geathers got held right in front of the official right before Ben throws the TD pass.
(3) By far the most arguable no call is the CLEAR block in the back on the punt return for a TD by Brown. I don't know what Bengal it was, but he had a clear shot at Brown and was pushed in the back and fell down and it was the most obvious block in the back I have ever seen, and it was not called. As Brown was running down the sideline, I was like this isn't going to count, so whatever, and then they didn't call it. That was the worst one.
And after that, nothing could save the Bengals. Not saying we were the better team, clearly, we played terribly. But this game SHOULD have been a lot closer.

@Angry Bengals Fan: Whining about officials is for losers.

6-2 really threw you all for a loop, huh?

I'll say it again... Strength of schedule.

Don't go thinking anything has changed in regard to this losing franchise.


How long before Dalton and Green are Bengalized?

At one point before he became a joke Chad Johnson was awesome and Carson Palmer looked to be really solid. The Koolaid drinkers choose not to remember that... they can only remember all the pick sixes Carson threw.

They'll probably finish 8-8 or 9-7 this year and be home for the playoffs. Next year's schedule will be harder and will yield a losing record.

@ #do not occupy Paul Brown Stadium. Ignoring the fact that officiating and horrible calls have a big impact on the game is foolish. I'm not saying that we would have won the game, or even that it would have been close. But something is wrong with those refs today if they aren't calling that apparent block in the back on the punt return. Everyone saw that, even my mother, who knows nothing about football and is getting senile.

This Bengals team has, I believe, lost its last 12 games (count 'em) against playoff teams, since defeating Baltimore in week 2 of last year (counting Denver as a playoff team for this season since they are currently tied for division lead, or 11 straight if you don't yet count Denver)

So, to @Steve's point: yeah, it's all strength of schedule. The NFL made that 6-2 start happen.

@Angry Bengals Fan: I understand that officials screw up, and that does indeed stink, and the NFL should do something about it. If you want to talk all-time jobs, then you look at the Seahawks vs Steelers in the Super Bowl (phantom holding) and the Cardinals vs the Steelers in the Super Bowl (didn't call the block in the back on the interception return at end of first half as time expired).

The thing is, unlike the Cardinals in the Super Bowl, our favorite team isn't inches away from a Lombardi Trophy. The Bengals aren't even in the same continent as the Lombardi Trophy.

@dnopbs. Good. If you remember bad officiating from 6 years ago then you must understand why I am complaining about it in this particular situation.

Well, the Bengs got blown out, but I do like to see the Dalton to Green strike...

I got to see the best part of the game (but also the 3 Stiller TD's in 4 minutes)...had to go to work after that, now I don't feel like I missed anything.

Reading TJanns posts, I thought I was reading JM, cause it's true what he said
(then I saw TJanns' sig at the base of the post, plus JM has a new team with the Raiders, not only for his own serenity, but also due to location, I believe I've read...and what do you know, Carson followed him! )

I don't want to think about Dalton, Green, or any of the rest of the team getting Bengalized, because they seem to have a pretty good personality right now...

Marvin Lewis then said at the post-game, "We have to put this game behind *me*..."
Freudian slip perhaps?

The tone of his speech said he's laughing/losing all the way to the bank.

Lol...suddenly he sounds like the weak link in that fine, collective personality the team has going...I'm sure its' nothing though

I'm guessing this will come down to the Ravens game on the last week of the season. Win and we're in, lose and we're out. Not that it'll matter. Unless we draw the AFC West winner in the first round, we're just going to get smoked.

Another no-show by Simpson. If he played half as well when AJ is in the game as he does when AJ's on the sidelines, we'd have a hell of a passing offense.

Also, did anyone else see that Cowboys game? Garrett apparently attended the Marvin Lewis school of clock management.

Uh ok the bengala looked terrible yesterday but this is the same team that went down to the wire with Pitt and Balt just a few weeks ago. The one thing on this site that drives me crazy is the selective memory. When the bengals do good it's forgotten about and when they do bad it's obscessed over. Do I see the bengaks winning the SB this year, no, but I see a good chance at the playoffs. BTW the steelers were blown out just as bad by the Ravens this season does that mean the steelers suck?!?!?

Re: #DoNotOccupy

Um, if you read the sentence below my praise of Dalton and Green you'd see that I was saying just that. They probably will get Bengalized.

Yes, there were some bad calls, but it's the Steelers at home, and the NFL loves the Steelers.

That said, Green's false start, the delay of game, and Cook's hold were all legitimate penalties and cost the Bengals a 10-0 lead.

I'm actually relieved. Even though I knew the schedule was super easy, I was starting to get a little excited. Now, I know it was all a ruse.

How the hell has no one mentioned Brandon "Little Man" Tate's shitty, shitty hands. Yes, TJanns mentioned the fumble that he actually lost, but he bobbled two other returns besides that. Scott should be returning kickoffs, and Tate should be looking for gainful employment elsewhere.

I watched the game yesterday with a living room full of Steelers fans (aka my extended family), so it was particularly awful; however, make no mistake - the Bengals lost this game more than Pittsburgh won it. That's not a "moral victory" by any means, but it is a variance from the theme of years past, and also a reason that there's still hope for this season, as bleak as it looks in the wake of the worst loss of the year.

By the end of the year -- unless the Ravens have nothing to play for that last game -- there's a pretty good chance the Bengals will have lost 14 straight games to playoff teams.

So if that comes to pass are we really going to say this is some new era? Sure smells like here-we-go-againsville to me.

Or more to the point: after 9 years of Mediocre Marvin why would finishing 9-7 or 8-8 this year be a sign of anything but same-old Marvin era Bungles? Seems like defeating the QB hampered Texans this Sunday is a necessary condition for you "this team is different" folks; otherwise you all would appear to be smoking crack.

What do you mean, how has no one mentioned Tate?? I been saying that guy was a joke since Week 1! Check the posts!

@Angry Bengals Fan... not sure if your new to this site, but just ignore #DNOPBS. I'm convinced that he's a Steelers or Browns fan who hasn't come out of the closet. I'm leaning towards Steelers because his arguments are that one-dimentional. When he comes to terms with his football identity (can tell is friends and folks) then he'll be much easier to be around.

Lets be real. No one - except Skip Bayless - thought this team would be anywhere near .500 at the end of this season, and yes, we all said it was a cake schedule back then too. So play-off teams or not, we are a head of where we thought we'd be. Same old, same old? perhaps... but with this many rookies and second year players, to include Jay Gruden, I can’t agree that we are still caught in the vortex of doom. Also look at who's out: Shipley, Dunlap, Hall, Clements, Sims... come'on man! How can anyone say this is anything less than what it is; a developmental year that NEEDED to happen. We tried shock theropy last year… remember the result? I’m surprised this patient got off the table at all this year… also did anyone, really, anyone think that we would win these games against Pitt or Balt? I had "hoped" so, but no one should be surprised; and therefore, no one should be in such a tizzy, throwing up their arms in shock and disgust like the sky fallen. It was in the cards boys, no one said this year was The Year so just chill out!

Now let’s be fair to Sunday. Huge bust. Huge. Showed our asses. But if we do those things playing The Rams, we'll still get it handed to us. The point is The Bengals lost Sunday game and would have lost against any NFL team playing that way. But so what. We've had three complete let-up games (Steelers, 49ers, Broncos) in a season that was supposed to be full of them. Strangely, I'm okay with those numbers.

But like it or not, Marvin is turning around this Striped Battleship, and its going to take time. He is changing the culture of that club and its visible. I’ll give you an example: at the beginning of the season, Deon Sanders was covering us, and he could barely hide his contempt and stomach the bile that was coming up when he had to say "Bengals" on national television (I was actually a little offended as a fan). But the pundits are coming around. A good point of reference, they didn't come around at all in 2009, because they knew we were weak sauce; all defense on a cake schedule. It’s different now. There was no next season for Carson, and the pundits knew it. There will be future with this team... maybe not next year, but shortly thereafter.

Last weekend was miserable. But I'm still loving this team and where it’s headed. And what's more, I can't wait for next week... they are going to come out fired up against a strong (but weakened) Texan team!

Whysoserious is right, we do have a selective memory here. Except for fans like #DNOPBS… they never forget how much they love to be miserable as hell.

No one's depressed, we're just trying to point out the obvious - that this season isn't the turning point everyone thinks it is. I keep hearing how we've turned the corner, and it's a new era in Bengaldom - "He has arisen" - when in reality we've beaten one team with a winning record (Tennessee, who if they'd lost one more game, would not have a winning record). Here's a list of teams that have more wins against teams that currently have a winning record than us:

Kansas City
Tampa Bay

There are a bunch more with only one, same as us. And not only have we not beaten good teams this year, we've struggled to beat bad ones. It was still a game in the 4th quarter against Jacksonville, Cleveland (twice), Seattle, Buffalo, and even Indianapolis. Until we can beat teams like Pittsburgh and Baltimore on a reasonably consistent basis, and put away bad teams early, nothing has changed.

Dalton looks good, and AJ is incredible, plus we have plenty of picks in the next couple drafts. But we've been in this position before and MB has found a way to ruin it. I have no reason to believe this is going to turn out any differently. I hope it does, but why should it?

@guttersnake tries the old "if you criticize us you're the enemy" technique on me. Clearly if I notice how much the Bengals stink on the field I must be a fan of another team, right? My team, right or wrong. In our case always wrong because our owner is an asshole.

Also tries the "if we repeat it often enough, then it must be true!" propaganda technique that is a favorite with the Koolaid crowd. Some of the all-time favorites: "This team has so much talent" (ignore that conspicuous lack of Pro Bowlers and All Pro players, the voters are just biased against us). And this year's gold standard: "We're turning it around" (ignore the umpteenth consecutive loss to good teams). Yada yada yada. It's what's carried the Koolaid types through 20 years of losing losing losing losing. Like Cubs fans. This is the year we're turning the corner. Next year will also be the year we're turning the corner. And the year after that will be the year we're turning the corner. (Until old Mike Brown finally does croak, in which case something good might happen)

The revolution will not succeed until the Koolaid tubs are empty. I guess for some that might take another 20 or 30 years of losing.

@ #DNOPBS - you sound like a Republican campaign ad.

I just don't see this year as the same. Sorry. It is has a different feel and culture, cut and dry... it feels more like 2003 when we went 8-8 with rookie Carson Palmer and a second year Chad Johnson. The next year with a much harder schedule? 8-8. Then came 2005, which was undeniably the strongest team we have fielded in two decades. I still truly believe that if Carson had not been crunched in that first playoff game, then we would have at the very least gone to the AFC Championship, maybe the Superbowl.

And yes, MFB can find a way to screw this up... but we seem to be trending away from what are characteristic Brown Family Values. That is evident is drafting and personnel moves. Will it continue?... I dunno. But if it does...well, isn't that is the point of the Revolution.

Thing is, I believe you can hold the line (not supporting MFB) and still support the team. I get my jersey's from a Chinese guy who makes them in a backroom. I watch the game at the pub. I tell people about the evils of our front office to the point where I have a reputation of being "too chatty" in the fourth quarter. Those empty seats in the second deck are putting MFB in a choke hold, and that IS the revolution. Its working, he is losing money every game. That, above (but not exclusive to) all things, is what makes the direction of this team so different than years past.

Honestly, I could care less if you enjoyed the fact we are 7-5 when we all thought we'd be 3-9 right now. I'm not trying to convert anyone or burst through the wall a la the Koolaid man. I'm just saying look/enjoy at the fruits of your labor.

gutter, I agree 100%. you can't argue with these people though. Take Dan's comment:

" Until we can beat teams like Pittsburgh and Baltimore on a reasonably consistent basis"

Seriously? What team in the NFL consistently beats Pitt and Balt on a regular basis? No one. So you show your cards. You will not be on board until the Bengals are the greatest team the NFL has ever seen. Yeah, hold your breath for that one. Guttersnake is right "they never forget how much they love to be miserable as hell."

I pointed out earlier - apparently nobody read it -- the 2003 team had a *winning* record (3-2) against playoff teams. The only time in 9 years Mediocre Marvin has achieved that feat. So @guttersnake although you're saying it "feels" like 2003 the football results -- 0-5 against teams holding playoff spots -- pretty strongly disagree with your gut. if they lose to Houston and Baltimore that would be a pretty rock solid case against this being 2003 redux. Next year the schedule won't be as kind.

Didn't realize the BCS was part of the NFL, it doesn't matter who you beat but that you get "w"'s in the nfl. Look at the 2005 Steelers they played an easy schedule with most of their wins over teams with losing records. Does that mean their Super Bowl doesn't count?!?

Ppl on here are killing me, go root for another team already your mad if the bengals suck and if they are good like this year you just bitch about that their schedule must be too easy. WTF are you ppl never satisfied?

@ Whysoserious - You're right: this isn't the BCS, this is the NFL. Nice call!

@ WhoDeyFans - I'll stand behind that. I applaud our more fever-pitched fans here to expect a standard that is akin to the Brady-Belichick era. Nothing wrong with wanting that. But...

Here's the Pepsi Challenge: Looking ahead AND ONLY ahead... does anyone here want to trade places with the Redskins? Colts? Chiefs? Miami? Vikings? Jaguars? heck, even Carolina with their non-existent defense? Any takers? They all have rookie QBs (or will next year)... How about the Broncos, Cowboys, Raiders, Eagles or Chargers with all their associated drama that normally follows us? Anyone? No?

@ occam - I'm not saying redux. I'm saying 'feeling'. As in we are going somewhere, which they were in 2003. Also, your argument is that they beat play-off teams to the tune of a 3-2 record. Yet that team ended up 8-8, which is probable for this 2011 team. The point is that even though the team in 2003 beat some play-off teams, they blew some games against non-play-off teams. Sooooo.... six of one, half a dozen of the other - yes, it feels like 2003. I see your point that we aren't slamming the big boys of the league, but we aren't losing to the chumps either... and the season ain't over yet either. So there is still room for error. I'll admit that much…

ha ha ha all of you SHEEP who think the Bungals have turned the corner. They have beaten NOBODY! It is simple as this. You are sticking up for a HC who has a horrible record against winning teams. They have an EASY SCHEDULE this year and that is a FACT, but when they play against the Big Boys, the Big Boy Pads never appear, quote Thornton who was a useless DLman for this team. Time to bring out the Big Boy Pads. ha ha ha I am willing to bet this place will turn into the Enquirer and go to facebook to make posts just to make money and keep out fans from speaking their opinion on how horrible this team is. LOL Are some of you related to MFB? We have heard all of this crap before! Lather, Rinse, Repeat for the 21st year under MFB's control!

"Seriously? What team in the NFL consistently beats Pitt and Balt on a regular basis?"

Uh, New England for one. Indianapolis is usually very good too. The real answer is not too many, because the whole damn point of my comment is that we should hold the Steelers and Ravens themselves up as a model. There are lot of other teams (Cowboys, Giants, Chargers, Eagles, Packers, Bears, Saints, etc...) that, over the last decade or so, are rarely not contenting for the playoffs, and almost never terrible. I'd take that.

I also said "reasonably consistent." I'd be okay with winning half of the time against them. Since '91 we've played the Steelers 42 times and won 11 (26%). It's better against the Ravens, but still well below 50%.

We have have had exactly two winning seasons over the last two decades, with no consistent year-to-year success, and yet every time we post a decent record (mostly against cupcakes) everyone thinks it's a new era. It's the NFL; there's so much parity and tiered scheduling that everyone is good from time to time. We happened to draw the NFC west and AFC South this year - the two worst divisions in the NFL - so we're winning more than we should. When it comes to good teams, we've lost most of them.

None of this is to say that I don't like the team. I'm here commenting aren't I? I do all of the things guttersnake does, including hanging on to an old jersey b/c I can't bring myself to buy a new one. I just think it's funny that every time we show flashes here or there, you think it's all over. Sit back, relax, and let the season play itself out before you judge it a success or a failure. I would have expected 4 wins this year, give or take one, so this team has surprised me. But beating a bunch of cupcakes, while playing down to most of them, and losing whenever we play a playoff caliber team is not a season I would define as "successful" or a harbinger of good things to come.

So I would say I'm mad when this team sucks, and I'm happy when they're good. I just haven't seen anything to convince me they are good. There's certainly potential, but there was potential in 2003, and in 2005, and in 2009... You can say "but this feels different" all you want, but until I see something different, I have my doubts.

PS - TigerJ@w, lay off the CAPS and name-calling. You give reasonable people like me a bad name.

@Dan R., I couldn't agree more. Excellent post, sir.

First: Throwing stats back in forth about 2003 versus 2011 is the equivalent of monkeys throwing shit in a glass cage. The two seasons cannot be compared in detail with stats since they are two completely different teams and built completely different from the ground up, and the opposing teams were built completely different as well. The two seasons can only be compared as metaphors. Gutter is correct that this team is very similar to the 2003 team in that this is a young team potentially emerging in the coming years, but they have some significant differences. Here is a summary:

1. 2003 Kitna was QB not Carson. Carson's reign did not start until his second season in 2004. If you might remember, having Palmer start in 2004 was controversial in the media and with fans at the time since Kitna just led a prior 2-14 team to the verge of being in the playoffs. Marvin looked to the future and without blinking installed Palmer. Behind a first year QB that made rookie mistakes (like Dalton is), they finished 8-8.

2. The 2003-2005 team had one the NFL's most dominate OL's in the league. They could pick up a 3rd and 1 anytime they wanted. This team's OL can't. This is the weakest link of the foundation right now. IF Mike Brown is truly relinquishing his control, then Marvin and Co. will upgrade the OL spots this offseason. Mike loves to select players that put up points, but to win you have to have a solid foundation and control the LOS. This will be one of the canary in the coal mines as to whether I was incorrect about the resurrection of black jesus. If I am wrong, then we are all fucked.

3. The 2003 team and 2011 team are similar in that they had developing talent at the specialty positions. Unfortunately this year, two major contributors were lost to knee injuries early in the year (Shipley and Scalfe).

4. The 2003-2005 teams' defense sucked. I hear people say that had the Bengals beat the Steelers and Palmer not got hurt they would have made it to the SB. But in fact, they never would have made it past Indy. They couldn't have stopped Payton. The 2003 team could not generate a pass rush to save its life, they couldn't stop the run, the LB corps were over the hill players acquired in FA, they relied on veteran CB's acquired through FA, and Chuck "10 yard cushion" Breshnahan was the defensive coordinator.

5. The 2011 defense is young and emerging. They need to upgrade spots in the offseason, but they don't have as many major holes like they did in 2003. They can provide a strong pass rush with only four DL (especially when Dunlap is in the lineup), they are better against the run then any Bengals def in modern history, and only the secondary is the weak spot (especially when every one is hurt). Most importantly it is led by man that can compete on the X's & O's part of the game.

If I had to choose which team I would start with as a foundation to build from, I would select the 2011 any day. As of right now the team needs for 2012 (in no particular order) are only: DT; OG; Safety; CB; WR, and RB.

Second: Seriously, who gives a shit if the Bengals have beaten a playoff team this year? The Steelers have only 1 win against a playoff team, the Pats, and it was only because they were missing players on their OL so the Steelers pas rush got to Brady. During Lewis's tenure, he has had only one solid team: the 2005 team. But even that team's defense was shitty and his OC was a certified moron. So of course he isn't going to have a solid record against playoff teams. Let's see what he can do when he has a better team (if he can build it, which I believe he is process) and better coordinators. Then we can talk.

This team isn't that good to even talk about playoffs or beating teams going to the playoffs. It is lucky if it makes 8-8 now after all of the injuries they have sustained. This is a team under construction. To think otherwise is clearly retarded and out of touch with reality. It clearly isn't a team in collapse like the Colts (they have more problems then just Manning), Chiefs, Dolphins, Jags, Philly, or the Vikings. The Redskins could be on that list, but they were killed with injuries at key spots throughout the year, and they clearly aren't the Pats or the Packers.

The question is what are they going to become in the coming years? If this is the peak, then they aren't going to be a great team in the coming years. But if Lewis can build on this team and add additional talent to upgrade key spots then they could take the next step up the ladder. No one on this site has said otherwise.

Um.... that was perfect. We have no rebuttal.

From the Rag:

"Through five home games, Paul Brown Stadium has been filled to 75.7 percent of capacity, which is a league low."

Amen, brother. Amen.

"The question is what are they going to become in the coming years?"

I agree completely. I just think there's a lot of people who already think they know the answer, and it is that we'll be a playoff caliber team for years to come ("this time it feels different"). I haven't seen enough to convince me that that's the case. There certainly exists the potential - we have the talent and the picks to be competitive - but potentially good is a far cry from actually good, especially given our track record over the past decade when we've been on the cusp of good.

Based on my experience as a Bengals fan, I have every reason to believe Mike Brown will fuck this up. He's batting 1.000 in that category so far. I hope I'm wrong.

Also, @Blesterov, the Steelers have 3 wins against playoff teams this year. We're currently the 6 seed, and they've beaten us twice, once soundly.

Awesome news on the capacity btw. I hope that it shows Mike Brown that a 8-8 team with a bunch of young players is not the change we are looking for. We want them to build on what they have and not pull a Burress during the next two off seasons.

If they seriously address their own FA's to retain their depth, and then upgrade the spots that need to be upgraded in the draft and FA, then I will be looking forward to next year and will support the return of Black Jesus 100%. If they fuck this progress all up, then I will be happy to lead the charge to storm the front office like a pissed off genetically engineered ape.

@ #DNOPBS - Now there is something I can get behind!

@DanR: exactly. The 2003 team had two emerging Pro Bowl type receivers, two Pro Bowl level Offensive tackles, and one Corey Dillon pissed off Pro Bowl level RB; plus a first-pick-of-the-draft Backup QB. To that they added one troubled but very talented WR.... and not much else of note, really. They failed to acquire even a single defensive player who scared other teams except Odell Thurman who scared Cincy PD more. They failed to retain Dillon but found a reasonable stand in for two years.

So this hindsight gets back to the fact that Bengals drafts have produced fewer all-pro Players under mediocre Marvin than under David Shula. Which is why I don't buy the he-has arisen thing at all. On today's team maybe Whit, Dunlap, AJ Green are in the elite category. Maybe. Atkins is a possibility. But those are maybe. For all the excitement about Dalton his yards-per-attempt is too low right now to say what he'll end up being. So in sum I'm not convinced anything is being built that will rival even the disappointment of 2005.

@ Dan R. Let me clarify since it is very easy to take words out of context in these discussions and posts. When people like Gutter and I say, "this team is different" it does't mean that we believe this team is going to the Super Bowl next year. It means they (Marvin or whoever is responsible) are actually putting the pieces in place to build up from. As mentioned above and on previous posts, this team is in much better shape to make a run in two years than the 2003 team ever was.

Re-read my post about Black Jesus's return and you will see why the tea leaves are showing me that Mike Brown is less likely to fuck this up. I admit, he totally can, and there is still a good chance he may if something goes wrong since that is all we have experienced as fans of this team. However as mentioned in that "arisen" post there are signs that point to this being the start of change. They have drafted key building blocks, and then have wisely retained those pieces long-term. They have had a string of at least three successful draft classes, Smith being the most questionable selection. Marvin was finally allowed to fire their retard of an offensive coordinator. Marvin was successful in pulling off the Palmer deal, which was a worse deal than what they were offered for Chad years ago that Mike vehemently blocked. The Palmer trade was lucky, but it is a green flag that change may be occurring in the front office at PBS.

IF they can:
1) continue this recent string of offseason success and not make Mike Brown-esque irrational moves in the draft like trading away their two 1st round draft picks to move up in the top 5 to get a RB who has a history of injuries, or hell, don't draft a RB and WR with their first two picks;
2) address their present weaknesses to upgrade the starting lineup and depth in the next two offseasons;
3) safely stay away from sustaining catastrophic injuries to key positions the rest of this and coming seasons;
THEN they have a chance to really do something in the coming years.

Also I don't consider this team a playoff team, I never have. I have only said they are/ will be better this year then most people think. I have been correct in that regard. After the bye they were decimated with injuries in key spots making it an uphill struggle to finish 8-8. You can't lose your star CB, CB depth, & DE pass rush specialist and still field a top 5 defense. If you have no pass rush then your secondary is exposed. If you don't have your shut down corner plus your 2nd & 3rd guy are slowed down b/c of their hamstrings and your safeties are not that strong to begin with, then it is very hard to stop someone since it is now easy to scheme to take advantage of your new weakness. Opposing offenses are doing just that. With these guys missing and limping the unit goes from a top 5 def to bottom half range. The offense is still too young and the OL is not strong enough to be able to carry the slack for the defense.

The Texans should win this weekend since we will be unable to cover Andre Johnson, even though they are playing without their starting QB, and with the weakened secondary Zimmer has to over compensate which then opens up the running game for Foster. Plus the offense isn't good enough yet to outplay the Texans tough defense. If Dunlap can play and they can provide a stout 4-man pass rush, which will be tough to do against the most dominate OL in the league, then they may be able to pressure their 3rd string QB into making mistakes which can turn the tables. But if I were the coaching this team, I would risk the L and sit Dunlap to make sure his hamstring heals 100% for the remaining game b/c you need him on the field if you want to win against the Rams and Cardinals.

@ occam. I agree with the maybes since this is a young team. Again no one is saying on this site that this team is the next dynasty. However they have potential to be that if they don't fuck it up is all I am saying. However, I disagree about Dalton. It is not about his numbers, it is about the solid technique he is showing, his ability to read defenses effectively as a rookie, his ability put the ball in the spot where it needs to be (even with someone in his face), and most importantly his ability to lead. As a former coach that is what has me excited. He is no Dan Marino, but he is not the next Mark Sanchez either - that much is clear right now. With experience and a better OL in front of him, his numbers should improve. The key is they need to invest in that OL, Mike's most undesirable thing to spend money on.

Agreed. I'd go guard & safety in the first round next year, and possibly pick up another guard in the 3rd or 4th round. CB and WR are our other big needs. Ced has another year in the tank if he wants to stay here, or we can get Bush or a similar back in free agency.

It seems in today's NFL that RB's are, for the most part, interchangeable with blocking schemes, not personnel, separating the good from the bad. That, and the short shelf-lives on RB's today, makes spending a 1st round pick on a running back an unwise move IMO.

Too early for draft talk... I mean, I'd love to (its secretly my favorite sporting event of the year), but too early...

that officials screw up, and that does indeed stink, and the NFL should do something about it. If you want to talk all-time jobs, then you look at the Seahawks vs Steelers in the Super Bowl (phantom holding) and the Cardinals vs the Steelers in the Super Bowl (didn't call the block in the back on the interception return at end of first half as time expired).

The thing is, unlike the Cardinals in the Super Bowl

take a lead and positive from drive, DELAY OF GAME!???? Seriously?

Driving into Steeler territory again, score 0-0, HOLDING, drive stalls.

HUGE pass interference call on Crocker (who sucks)

FUMBLED kickoff return after it's 14-0.

After getting the ball back, down 21-7, 3 and out and ANOTHER FUCKING penalty. They punt, it's returned for a TD. 28-7.

Game. Set. Match by halftime.

It is rediculous to even suggest that. It is not fair to take the actions and ideas of group of people.

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    Bengals Futility - By The Numbers

    • 20 - Years since the Bengals have won a playoff game

      0 - Total number of playoff wins in Mike Brown's tenure as owner

      .359 - Bengals regular season winning percentage since Mike Brown took over as owner (115-206-1 in 20 seasons)

      29-34-1 - Record since 2005 playoff game vs Steelers

      6 - Seasons the Bengals have lost their first six games since 1991. No other team has more than two.

      0 - Teams North of Cincinnati without an indoor practice facility

      10 - Players arrested in a 14 month span from 2005-2006

      32 - Mike Brown's ranking, out of 32, of the "Best Owners in the NFL" by Michael Silver of Sports Illustrated in 2007

      458,000,000 - Amount, in dollars, that Hamilton County Taxpayers paid to build PBS

      2032 - Year that Hamilton County will have finally paid off its debt on the stadium deal

      3 - Total number of non-clerical employees employed in the Bengals scouting department, lowest in the league

      747,000,000 - Amount, in dollars, paid in free agency by the Bengals from 1994 - 2005, second worst of all 28 teams in existence for the duration, behind only Arizona

      118 – Ranking, out of 118 professional teams, of the “Worst Franchises” in professional sports, as ranked by ESPN the Magazine in 2003.

      97 – Ranking, out of 98 general managers in all four major sports with three or more years of experience, of Mike Brown’s performance as a GM, as ranked by Forbes in 2007.

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