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Who Dey Revolution Manifesto

  • Preamble

    IN THIS TIME of perpetual Cincinnati Bengals incompetence and futility, with zero playoff wins in the nineteen seasons since the WhoDeyRevolution Godfather, Paul Brown, passed away in 1991 and handed the team to his fortunate son, the Despot, Mike Brown;


    WE, the members of the Who Dey Revolution, in our fervent dedication to the Cincinnati Bengals and fanatical desire to transform our hometown team into perpetual Super Bowl contenders, call for a popular revolution of fans to demand comprehensive reform to the managerial decisions and approach of Cincinnati Bengals ownership, management, staff and players, and hereby call for the adoption of the following Who Dey Revolution Manifesto:

    Manifesto Demands

    THAT the Mike Brown, Katie Blackburn, Marvin Lewis, along with every other member of the Bengals management, staff and personnel, state publicly to all Bengals fans, “I will do everything in my power to help the Cincinnati Bengals win a Super Bowl;”

    THAT Mike Brown will hire a general manager, drastically expand the scouting department and relinquish all control of player personnel;

    THAT all training, rehabilitation and medical facilities are considered best-in-class compared to other NFL teams;

    THAT the management fill the team only with players who fit the system, both mentally and physically, and are not reluctant to makes changes to player personnel when needed, regardless of cost or loyalty concerns;

    THAT offensive and defensive line depth is considered the top priority for all player personnel decisions;

    THAT all decisions made by ownership, management, staff and players, both on and off the field, are judged only by this criterion: “Does this help the Cincinnati Bengals win a Super Bowl?”

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« Odds & Ends | Main | Ho Ho Ho Santa Brought You A Blackout: Bengals - Cardinals Open Thread »

December 11, 2011


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Sodding arses. That is all.


Fitting that Pacman Jones gets the penalty late.

Fitting that they have 1st and goal and Bobby Williams, a 13 year veteran has a false start. AT HOME. Resulting in only a FG.

Fitting they couldn't secure that fumble late.

Fitting that they LOST a must win game.

Losing is a culture for this franchise. They do NOT know how to win. And NEVER WILL

Where is your MESSIAH now? bbbbbbbbbwwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Mediocre Marv is a LOSER and so is this ORGANIZATION! Time to get back to the real business WhoDeyRevolution! and some of you thought they were turning the corner? Nothing has changed! A easy schedule at the beginning and now you see what they are. They will not even beat the Rams. I just have a feeling they won't! WHO DUH!

Well that sucked. No problems with the effort, we just lack professionalism. A better team there that expects to win doesn't jump offside on two key plays, and puts that game away at one of the 5 or 6 chances we had to do that. You just sort of knew that was going to happen at the end, and you can't help but think the players had that feeling too.

@TigerJ@w is right!

The whole problem is that even on this site people get sucked into the fake-outs.
Crappy, classless owner. Mediocre team. Mediocre coach. THIRTEEN straight losses to playoff teams! And Marvin's record overall against playoff teams is 14-42-1.

We need to get airplanes up towing banners over the stadium: HIRE A GM! TWENTY YEARS, ZERO PLAYOFFS! etc.

Who dey? Well, apparently anybo-dey who is going to the playoffs.

Most important thing now is having as many open seats as possible in the stadium for the last two home games.

Just horrible. There is no point in getting up hope from September - November when the same thing always happens in December. This season was so entertaining, but now the story has the same ending. Marvin (Messiah? HA.) and co. cannot man up and play like pros when it matters.

The season was not entertaining unless you really get that big a thrill squeaking out victories over doormats.

The Bengals are like Lucy pulling the football away from Charlie Brown right before he kicks it. I always fall for it.....

Couldn't us fans ban together, raise enough cash to buy the team from Mike Brown, and run it like the residents of Green Bay? If we were able to pull this off, there would be no more mediocre: staffers, players, coaches, and a terrible owner, because we would call the shots!

Just a thought as I was watching the Packers win it's 13th game this season, well on their way to ANOTHER Super Bowl...

2 Super Bowl appearances in just over 40 years, and the '82 team was a surprise.

I'm 26, I "saw" the '89 Super Bowl Bengals, but I was 4 so I barely recall this. I can actually recall only 2 playoff berths and games, each ending in... well we don't need to me to tell the terrible ending of those stories. I am through thinking and wanting a Super Bowl, right now I just want a playoff win, then I will start thinking Super Bowl.

Again, as the Packers were winning their 13th straight game of this season, I had an epiphany: let's band together, raise enough money to buy out Mikey Boy and run this team like the residents of Green Bay do!

Thoughts? 2.2 million people in the tri-state area, this could be done!

@Justin: It would take each person contributing $450 to $500. Which come to think of it is about the cost of season tickets. But that's for over 2 million people. Doubtful there are that many people that can afford Bengals season tickets!

Also: the NFL does *not* want another Green Bay Packers.

From The New Yorker:

Here are the Packers: financially solvent, competitive, and deeply connected to the hundred thousand person city of Green Bay. It’s a beautiful story but it’s one that the N.F.L. and Commissioner Roger Goodell take great pains both to hide and make sure no other locality replicates. It’s actually written in the N.F.L. bylaws that no team can be a non-profit, community owned entity. The late N.F.L. commissioner Pete Rozelle had it written into the league’s constitution in 1960. Article V, Section 4—otherwise known as the Green Bay Rule—states that “charitable organizations and/or corporations not organized for profit and not now a member of the league may not hold membership in the National Football League.”

Mike Brown =

A winning record when there is nothing on the line.

A losing record when there is.

The NFL prevents local, public ownership of franchises because they like giving owners the ability to threaten to leave in order to squeeze the best stadium deals possible from taxpayers desperate to keep their team. It's very very shitty.

But I do think that the next project Mayhem act should be to hand out flyers at the next two home games to try to get a cheer started.

Instead of just BOOING when the team does shitty, people should cheer "MIKE BROWN - STEP DOWN!" over and over again, so it gets on TV.

Don't even know what to think. I still really like the players on this team (e.g., Hawkins--raise your hand if you thought artrell's brother would contribute anything). If you would have told me before the season, even with the schedule in front of me, that the bengals would have won 7, I would have punched you in the dick, bought you a whiskey as a conciliatory gesture and then,after further contemplation, would have punched you in the dick again. It was indeed the little things that killed us--the false start on the first drive, the fumbled fumble recovery (that wasn't a fumble in the first place; even when we catch a break we can't catch a break) and the false start on 4th and 1 at the end (still not sure about that call)make me think that this team can change players but will never do the little things to get over the losing-culture hump.

Every team is hurt at this time of year, but it always seems as if our injuries are the most untimely, and in the areas where we have the least depth. I hate to make excuses, it's really kind of pathetic, but I guess my point is that if, and this is a big if, the bengals can use their bevy of draft picks to build depth, this team could be different than the ones previous.

Probably not though, given that we can never seem to overcome our institutional incompetence. In the words of the immortal paula abdul (in conjunction with chester the cheetah), it is indeed two steps forward, and two steps back. Normally the first emotion after a loss like this is for me to be angry, but I like these guys, so it just hurts my heart.

@Justin....great idea...
@occam...another reason I don't like corporate power

I have to vent...didn't see the game, but just got done watching the highlights on the computer. So many missed opportunities, I think we all can agree this team does not deserve the playoffs after this one. How do you not score a TD after Benson runs it down from the one!!! And after the D makes a solid stop and fumble recovery at 19-10, all the O has to do is have a nice solid drive to maybe get another 3 and put it away....but of course another nothing drive.

Maybe someone can help me out here...why doesn't Marvin challenge the spot after the Scott run on third and long? The commentators said it was a bad spot and I thought Mediocre Marv was smart enough to at least challenge a ruling like that in the closing minutes.

And this pass interference crap has to stop!! Jones did have the WR's arm, but there was contact both ways..let them play. You don't make a call like that down the stretch with everything on the line...what a joke...pass interference needs to be reigned in.

I know 7-6 is better than anyone thought this year, but sometimes I'd rather have the 3-10 record I thought they would have so they can stop reinforcing their inability to win in the clutch when it counts. Honestly, I really just want a winning record...after Many of Marv's 8 and 8 seasons, our 3rd winning season in 21 years would be a small victory for the fans.

Also loving the empty seasts I saw in the stadium.
Deion Sanders ..."this team is in da playoff hunt, why there so many empty seats"?...someone hasn't been paying attention for 20 years

I can't wait to hear Marvin at the press conference today. "Well, we made some mistakes and we've got to clean those up. We had some opportunities and we weren't able to take advantage of them. We've got to do better."

We've got to know our own fucking snap count. The sad thing is, while the smart ones among us (basically, this site's readers) the second half of this season as an opportunity wasted, most season ticket holders and Mike Brown himself will see this as a better season than expected, and reason enough for more of the same.

I hate myself for loving the Bengals. ARGH!!!

There aren't really a bevy of draft picks, just a couple extra ones for Palmer. If you imagine adding an extra Keith Rivers (1st) and an extra Jerome Simpson (2nd) to this team, they still suck. And that's who the Bengals ultra-cheap scouting system comes up with time after time.

Here's a hint: In order to *build* a team, you have to *gain* something in each and every draft. That means at the end of the offseason you have more top players than you had before. Guys who make Pro Bowls (you remember what those are, right? I know, since Marvin has drafted exactly one Pro Bowler its tough to remember. Let's repeat that for the deaf, dumb, and blind: THIS TEAM HAS NOT DRAFTED A PRO BOWLER SINCE 2003. That's a longer drought than during the David Shula days)

This year's draft produced so far Boling, who was bad when he played, and not an upgrade of anything (not even if you imagine swapping him in for Livings); AJ Green and Dalton, who got swapped in for Carson Palmer and one of the loudmouths, and a guy named Dontay Moch who was your third round pick who has not played a single down all season. Robert Sands in round 5. who is so far a nothing.

Palmer last year had 26 TDs and 20 INTs and a QB rating of 82.4; Dalton has 18 TDs and 12 INTs and a QB rating of 82.1. And the official measurement? Actually, that shows NO GAIN. So what about replacing Ocho and Owens with Green and Simpson? Green and Simpson = 10 TDs this year. Ocho and Owens last year? 13 TDs. And the official measurement? It's a big gain in that you don't have to listen to Ocho and Owens, and that Green may someday be as good as Ocho was in his prime. But on the field Simpson's being not too good and actually a draft bust has severe consequences (like zero catches in two games against the Steelers)

So in the offseason you swapped your franchise QB and your two loudmouth receivers for guys who are classier and more quiet and smoke more weed... and don't actually produce more... you lost your best cornerback and replaced him with a pretty good player who is getting old in the tooth. You swapped a couple scrub linebackers for a few other scrub linebackers, none of whom will ever make a Pro Bowl. That's it. That's the Bengals "building" in 2011. That's what the Koolaid drinkers were sucking down as football Jesus has arrived. Most people would call that treading water. And that's what they're going to do in 2012 and beyond because you-know-who doesn't have a clue.

"Mike Brown = A winning record when there is nothing on the line. A losing record when there is."

I actually did the math on this at the end of last year, but can't find my spreadsheet right now. In the Mike Brown era, the Bengals almost always have a better record in the last 4-5 weeks of the season than the rest of the season -- UNLESS they're in playoff contention. I think I'm going to have to rebuild that chart, 1990 would be the first year right?


Well said.

This is on the front page of under something called "Playoffs 101" -

It is a lecture series entitled “The Hot Teams," with the emphasis that the NFL is full of examples of teams catching fire late and going deep into the playoffs.

“'05 Steelers, ’06 Bengals, ’09 Jets, ’08 Eagles,” Lewis said as he walked out of his Monday news conference.

Really? The '06 Bengals? The team coming off an 11-5 season, and was sitting at 8-5, poised to make the playoffs for the second year in a row for the first time in...a while, before losing their last three and missing the playoffs? Perhaps you meant the '05 Bengals, the one that actually made the playoffs but ruined their seeding by losing the last two to terrible teams before getting bounced in the first round by the Steelers.

Good lord...

I understand the need to try and inflate the ego's on your team after this last loss. But they seriously need to not spew bullshit like that and call it like it is. This season is over. It has been for a couple of weeks now. You cannot lose your best CB, 2nd CB, pass rush specialist, RT, and now RG and remain competitive in the NFL. All this playoff talk is a poorly thought out marketing ploy.

Out of all of the teams in playoff contention, most of them do not stand a chance of succeeding once they get in. Depending on who they play, there is a good chance the Steelers and Patriots are both one and one teams. Steelers are not as good as their record, and the Pats have no defense. If I had to pick today, I'd say the Super Bowl is going to the Texans vs. the Packers. If they get Schaub and Johnson back in the lineup, the Texans are the most complete team in the AFC with the Ravens second. In the NFC, I don't think anyone has a defense that can stop the Packers offense.

@blesterov: More importantly, there's no team in the NFC that can consistently run the ball enough to keep Aaron Rodgers off the field. That's the only way a team is going to be able to beat the Packers - put together clock-draining scoring drives early to keep the game close and hope for the last possession of each half. Baltimore's ability to run the two-minute on the Steelers leads me to believe they'd be able to do as well (if not better) against the Packers ass pass defense, but it'd be up to Ray Rice to keep Rodgers off the field to limit the Packers' scoring opportunities. And, of course, the good Flacco that doesn't throw picks would have to show up as well.

As for this Bengals team, you're absolutely right - the injuries have been too much at too important of positions for this team to make the playoffs, much less enjoy any success in them if they do somehow make it. And yes, I think both the Steelers and Patriots will "enjoy" very short playoff appearances this year, with both teams losing their first playoff contest. On that note, how sweet would it be if Tebowmania bounced the Steelers?

false start
false start
false start

that is some grade school bullshit

holy deja-vu, Pat Sims


I would not count the Patriots out of anything. They've shown they can scheme for one game against *anybody's* offense, especially if they can cheat and film their practices. Similarly I don't count the Steelers out either. They have a history of winning games they shouldn't win in the playoffs (and losing games they should have won, as well!)

@blesterov - the Texans also lost their best pass rusher, along with their top two quarterbacks and the best wide receiver in the NFL. Also, they won't get Shaub back - he's on IR.

This teams's season is over, but it's not because of injuries (every team has injuries; the Steelers and Texans, to name two, have made it through worse this year). It's over because we're not so talented, and because Marvin is (not a poor coach, but) a poor game manager.

Things I'm excited about this season are (1) Dalton and Green look like they will pan out, and (2) the fan base seems to be sick enough of MB and that has led to enough empty seats that people finally seem to be taking notice. I asked Reedy in the chat today about attendance and he said "[f]ans are more content to travel to away games and support the team than show up at home and they are speaking with their money that they are not going to give it to MB. You have to admire the fortitude considering the 6-2 start this year and how easy it would have been for them to come back." That last part is a ringing endorsement of this site's work.

The Bengals have *one time* in their entire history been a hot team going into the playoffs. The year? 1970. Won their opener, lost 6 in a row, then won their last 7 games to finish 8-6 and squeak into the playoffs.


In 1981, they got beat badly by the eventual Super Bowl champion 49ers, at home, in a game that Ken Anderson was forced to sit out.
In 1988, they lucked out to beat the Redskins when a field goal hit the upright, or would have lost home field advantage.
1975: Started 6-0, finished 11-3, got only wild card in franchise history (!)
1976: Started 9-2, finished 10-4, eliminated from playoffs (probably the best record of any non-playoff team)
1982: lost badly to Chargers near end of season, crushed by Jets in playoffs
1990: started 5-2, finished 9-7

Dan, yeah I missed that news about Schaub. So they are not making it to the Super Bowl either. Baltimore has the best shot in the AFC. I will lay big bucks on them if they face the Steelers again in the playoffs. They had them by the throat in last year's playoff game, but then stopped blitzing in the second half. I hope they learned their lesson.

Houston's success without Schaub and Johnson is evidence supporting my thesis that a dominate OL is a better key to success than skill positions. Without an OL to protect the QB and allow him time to read the defense and find the open man, most QB's are screwed. The only two out there that come to mind who can produce with shitty OL's in front of them are Rodgers and Ben. Notice that as the Packer's OL has improved the past couple of seasons, Rodgers numbers have also improved.

I disagree on the effect of the injuries, but you are correct about this team not being talented enough. They don't have the talent yet to be a playoff or SB contending team (even if they were fully loaded without injuries); they are a young team under construction going throw growing pains. When you mix in the injuries, it just wore down the team's strengths and their abilities to compensate for their weaknesses. Pittsburgh was able to take advantage of those enlarged weaknesses as was Houston this past weekend just as I predicted.

Talent and injuries have NOTHING to do with the last few losses.

This team had 10 penalties against the Steelers 2 weeks ago. In a game when they should have gone up 10-0, they fell behind 21 because of penalties and turnovers.

Talent? AJ Green is incredibly talented, but he had the false start against Pittsburgh that scratched a TD to Gresham in the 1st Qtr. Then, a delay of game on a FG, then a blocked FG. That is bad coaching and a LOSING culture and 20 years of ineptitude. PERIOD

Same against the Texans. 1st and Goal from the 1 yard line. AT HOME. FALSE START.

After '04 we were all saying the same thing about this team. "Carson and Chad will only get better, they are young, but talented, we just need more depth"...bla bla bla

Same Shitty franchise, different year.

I do think the lack of attendance is a good sign. That the people of Cincinnati are not all morons and won't take this crap from MB anymore.

I hope it continues. Forcing, maybe, big maybe, but forcing him to make the proper changes.

i.e. - GM, indoor facility, more scouts

Tjans really!?!?!? A rookie who had virtually no offseason makes rookie mistakes and it's the end of the world?!? The shit happens up in New England too.

I don't know how many failures can be tolerated before ownership finally realizes it's time to get rid of Marvin Lose-us. He's terrible.



You MISSED my point entirely.

Bobby Williams has had 12 off seasons and he had a costly false start. This team always finds a way to lose. Period.

TJ Yates had no off season and he drove the Texans down the field to win it late.

My point was, Mike Brown's has built up 20 years of a losing culture for this franchise. And it may never change.

Keep drinking that koolaid buddy

Los Angeles would probably not welcome the Brown family

Nice run this site had. Now it seems more like a fan site than one pushing for change. Oh well, it is just football I guess

Not a fan site but at the same time stupid comments are stupid comments. To basically say that a player making a penalty b/c of MB is just silly. The patriots commit dumb penalties too. I'm not drinking the kool aid but i have to call it like I see it.

TJ Yates drove down the field with no offseason, last I check Dalton has done that too this year on several occasions in this "losing culture"

I understand wanting change but to not be able to at least partly enjoy a surprisingly good season is just sad and maybe you should find a new team to root for.

Hi soserious -- The reason this season is not enjoyable is because there truly isn't any change. This is the same old crap, except the first half of the season was a cakewalk.

I've been a fan since the late 70's when I idolized Ken Anderson. I watch two superbowls. I saw the last time the Bengals won a playoff game in 1991.

We still have the same owner with the same cheapskate philosophy. We still have the most understaffed scouting departments in the NFL. Most teams have 15-20. We have five. you have an owner of a $300 Million dollar team, earning $20 Million off the back of revenue sharing, and he is so far under the cap it is ridiculous.

With the help of his kronies in Cincy, he blackmailed the city into subsidizing him. I'd still be upset by this if he were winning... but he isn't.

How can I get excited by this? If I could get over the whole loyalty thing, I would find a new team to root for. I hate the Steelers, but they sure know how to win year after year, decade after decade.

It starts at the top. For the Steelers. For Cincinnati.

And if there are any Pittsburgh fans reading this, get the Ho's Ho's out of your mouth, wipe off your four chins and log off the internet.


Great post.


The Patriots make dumb penalties, sure. They also have 3 RINGS and 6 SB appearances you tardass.

Losing and poor management trickles down in EVERY business. That was my point. You are exactly why Bengals fans still pay money to watch this team. 7-6 is a "surprisingly good season". That's exactly my point.

Mediocrity is considered good for this franchise.

Uh it's not that mediocrity is considered good it's that even on my most optimistic day in July I thought they'd finish 7-9 and even I thought that was crazy. The fact they are 7-6 when most ppl on here were guaranteeing 0-16 is an accomplishment and something to enjoy. Again why not root for another team if nothing the Bengals do will make you happy??

I'm stuck with this team. My wife is from New Orleans and we got married there, so I pull for them. But I'm stuck with this shitty franchise because of loyalty. Trust me, if I could just root for another team I would.

I bitch about it, because I want change. Much like the reason this website was originally created. The occasional decent year isn't enough for me anymore, and it's starting to look like it's not enough for a lot of fans giving the home attendance this year.

I'm glad that 7-6 has made you so happy. I made no guarantees before the season and I won't next year. As long as Mikey Boy runs things as he does, this team will never win consistently, let alone make a playoff run.


Why not spend your time at a website that doesn't harbor dissenting opinion of the Bengals franchise if nothing we dissidents post will make you happy?

@tjanns: I love "I'm stuck with this team"! I resemble that remark! I guess I read these comments/this site because I know I can usually find people like me frustrated with MB&Co but still fans. I gave up my tickets last year but I moved over a decade ago so they were just sentimental and ditching them was all I could do to show my frustration. I still watch the Bungles on the 'net (I'm in the UK now) and usually start the week disappointed.

When Benson got tackled at the 3 after his long run, who in Bengaland didn't guess they wouldn't score a TD? I would love to see a stat on the number of times the Bengals have had a long play resulting in first and goal and not scoring a TD. I bet it's over 50%!

Steve I come to this site because I like having good debates with other bengal fans. That said ill never I understand how people can say they are a fan of a team when all they do is say how much they hate them. The fact that the bengals are good this year but all people on here can say is " well they'll suck next year" us sad. Saw the same thing with UC fans during Kelly's run instead of enjoying the good year all they did was ignore it and focus on how they would stink again in two years. That's like saying I won't go see the Dark knight even though I know it'll be great because the Dark knight rises will not be as good.

Btw as far as the "cakewalk schedule " go back and look at 05 steelers, there schedule was just as easy as the bengals was this year, does that mean their Super Bowl doesn't count because it was an easy schedule?!?!

Also I've long preached that just adding scouts would solve absolutely nothing and not change this team at all. The number of scouts is meaningless in thus day and age of mass information. Detroit, Cleveland, and KC have bigger scouting departments and have done worse than the bengals the last ten years. It's having a system that means everything and honestly I think Marvin is finally getting the idiot owner to buy into a solid system.

Whysoserious, nobody here hates the Bengals. We hate an organzation run by Mike Brown and his family that believe that finishing 8-8 is the worthy and ultimate goal. There have been other franchises in history who take the same attitude. The Chicago Cubs are the perfect example. Cubs fans have really stuck by their Cubbies! What has it gotten them?

At some point, you realize that short term pain equals long term gain. That is what I think this site is all about. Boycott the product until they decide to do it right. The Bengals do need a bigger scouting department. Yes, everyone knows 90% about the players based on the "mass information". But its the other 10% that you know and your competition doesn't that makes the difference. There are plenty of examples in the last 20 years of the Bengals picking the wrong players due to lack of information.

Most of us realized that the good start would be an illusion. Even if they manage to win 10 games this year, we all know Mike's philosphy will lead to changes that will not be beneficial to the team. Think J.Joseph might have been helpful these last few games?

I don't believe Marvin is that good as a head coach. But Mike has his spending limits. I guess he is all "Bob Cratchett" can afford.

Merry Christmas to all!

Mass information, meet Sean Brewer, Bengals third round draft pick. Never played a down. Was a smoker, I kid you not. On draft day the entire league had a laugh about that pick.

Brewers inability to get on the field was due to his knee injury not his smoking, if the rest of the league thought he shouldn't be touched why did Atlanta claim him off waivers?

Most of the Bengals miscues in the draft haven't been from lack of info just bad decisions from up top on who to pick. They knew Thurman had issues they just didn't care. The past two drafts though I think have been better as far as less risk/reward guys.

Maybe I'm just nuts but I think this team has a good foundation to build on to be successful for the next few years and they are starting to make better decisions upstairs. The only move this last offseason I was disappointed in was Joseph. However I don't blame the bengals, Joseph is good but I the NFL you don't get points for overpaying CB's. Also I think the questions at QB and WR etc were bigger factors in Joseph leaving than just the money. From what I was told he wanted to stay here but if it was you would you stay here with a rookie QB and WR or go play with Foster, Shaub, and Johnson?

Whysoserious, two things:

1. "...when all they do is say how much they hate them." No one hates this team, or has even said that. My feelings, and the unofficial motto of this site, is "love the team, hate the owner."

2. "The fact that the bengals are good this year..." The Bengals are not good this year. We are 1-6 against teams with a winning record.

Maybe I'm confused 7-6 is bad?? Again look at the 05 steelers they lost to good teams and beat bad teams does that make their Super Bowl invalid. In the NFL a win is a win this isn't the BCS it doesnt matter who you beat it matters what your record is.


I get where you're coming from. I really do. And I wish I could be as optimistic as you are.

That said, how much of a 'good foundation' did this team have in '05?

Yes, Palmer's knee sucked, but he came back in time and set the franchise record for passing yards. And the team barely missed the playoffs in '06. Here are the mistakes that are Mike Brown's ALONE and helped create this downfall. (in no particular order)

1. Drafting guys with issues. (Thurman, Henry. Both high draft picks and talented, but NOT worth the risk)

2. NOT resigning Eric Steinbach. The team had a great O-Line, Rich Braham was retiring, it was important to keep Palmer protected. Brown didn't.

3. Releasing Willie Anderson a week before the '08 season. He was a 12 year veteran, a stand up guy and gave back to the community. What kind of message does that send to younger players about this organization. Play hard, play well and be a good professional and I'll cut you if I want.

4. Not trading Chad Johnson to the Redskins. It was an insane deal and Chad was past his prime and a huge diva and distraction.

5. Signing Antonio Bryant.

6. Signing T.O. HUGE mistake. (I don't care about his stats last year. 16 of Palmer's 20+ interceptions were when T.O. was targeted)

7. Not firing Bratowski after '08.

All of this off the top of my head, but still, these are horrible decisions by an owner.

And speaking of the '05 Steelers. They NEVER should have a) made it to the SB. The Bengals were going to spank them if Cowher wasn't a cheater and Kimo didn't wrap Palmer's knee b) The Seahawks were a better overall team. The Refs game the Steelers that game.

Yes, maybe Dalton, Green and this gang will be different. Maybe the solid drafts will continue. Maybe they will get a new LG, RG, S, CB and RB.

Maybe. But, 20+ years is a long time of being bad. So, you'll forgive me if I'm pessimistic. If the team wins out, and gets in this year. Awesome. If they continue to build off this, awesome. But history has proven otherwise.

WTF? 2005 Steelers of course beat everyone in the playoffs which is when it counts the most... something unfamiliar to Bengals fans since Pappy Bush was President.

During the regular season the Steelers played the following playoff teams:
Bengals (1-1)
Colts (0-1)
Patriots (0-1)
Jaguars (0-1, overtime)
Bears (1-0)

So they went 2-4 vs playoff teams.

The Bengals have lost 13 straight games versus playoff teams. There's a difference. Unless you're clueless, which you seem to be.

And speaking of smoking crack, yeah Sean Brewer was on the roster of some NFL teams.
He had been rated the 15th best tight end going into the draft, and even *he* was surprised to be drafted.
His career NFL totals: 1 tackle, zero receptions.

Tjans you make great points, my thing to others on here again
is why not enjoy this year at least as donotoccupy said the steelers only had to win in the playoffs do their regular season didnt matter( funny that's okmfor the steelers in his mind but not the bengals) do I think they'll win the SB of course not but why not at least enjoy what if any run they make this year? MB isn't going anywhere.

I understand the history with MB but Cincinnati fans have to be some of the most pessimistic moody fans I've ever seen. The reds make the playoffs all I hear us "well it's just lucky they'll suck next year" UC has a great season under Kelly "well he'll leave and we'll suck again". The bengals start strong this year and it's "well it's an easy schedule they'll suck next year"

Common theme Cincinnati fans can never stop and enjoy winning I swear the reds could win two straight world series the bengaks could win two superbowls and people in this town would still say "well they'll probably suck next year"


You, sir, are an idiot. You claim this team is good and then use handwaving to prove it. The '05 Steelers have nothing to do with anything.

Now put down the crack pipe. Put down the spiked Kool-Aid. Shut up and listen.

This team has exactly ONE win against winning teams. They are 7-6. At best, you can say this team is average. It doesn't matter what the Steelers did in '05. It doesn't matter what any other team did any other year. "Good" is a relative term, compared against your peers. The bengals have proved that they are better than the worst teams. The Bengals have also proved that they are worse than the top half of the teams in the NFL.

You can spin it any way you want. You can slice it, dice it, put it in the oven, but it doesn't change this very simple fact: The Bengals are an average or below average team. You cannot call them good.

Now, if you managed to read and comprehend all of this, you may resume with your crack smoking.

What crack pipe are you smoking Me?? Yes the bengals are not a great team, they have as much of a chance to win the Super Bowl as I do but they are not an "average team". They are a good team, sorry but if you have over .500 in the nfl you are a good team. Ask any former player winning games in the nfl isnt easy. Also with the exception of the second Pitt game they have gone down to wire in every game losing by 7 points or less that isnt an easy thing to do in the nfl.

I have enjoyed watching Dalton, Green and the defense. No doubt.

But they just blew a must win game at home to a 3rd string QB.

To me, that erases a 6-2 start, because how a team 'pleasantly' starts a season has nothing to do with a whole season.

And as far as your comment about Cincinnati fans. Yes, there is a lot of negativity. But, after the Reds '09 season, what did they do? Finish 4th?

And there is nothing to be positive about with the Bengals the last 20 years. Nothing.

This is my last post on this. I promise.

Going back to the negativity thing. Professional sports are nothing more than entertainment. We all know that. But, it is a fact that a franchise can do wonderful things for a community and adversely, awful things.

Like I said, my wife is from New Orleans. After Katrina, that team was something that city could hang its hat on. And after them winning the SB that entire city felt alive again, and it all helped bring that community back together. I'm not saying the Saints were the only thing that has helped build that city back up, but it was a level of pride.

Look at Steelers fans. They are so proud of having the Steelers. Same with Green Bay, who literally has NOTHING else.

Detroit (mostly the Lions), Cincinnati, Cleveland and some others have awful Professional sports teams. And that negative feeling trickles down. Mike Brown and the stadium deal and what its doing to Hamilton County tax payers is horse shit. It really is, but how bad would it be if the team won more consistently? If the team could be some sort of pride for people of the city. Instead of arrests, losing seasons and asswipes like Ochocinco.

It would have a very positive effect. But instead, it's got 20 years of losing and bad business. That has an effect on people. Period.

Now I'm done.


You are not an idiot. And I have my doubts about you smoking hardcore illegal drugs.

However, I do have to agree with 'Me's general statement. This is an average team. No more. No less.

"Good" is a subjective, relative, term. But it can hardly be applied to this Bengals team. They are 7-6. Even if you figure that they are better than some of the other 7-6 teams out there, like I do (let's say Oakland and Tennessee - we're better than them - maybe), then you are sitting at 15th out of 32 teams. Right in the middle of the pack. Or in other words... "average".

But I wouldn't go putting a whole lot of stock in nothing more than the team's record. There are other variables at play as well. If you want to ignore them, that's your choice. But not even the NFL itself seeds playoff teams by record alone.

Heck, look at the Seahawks who won a division title and beat the defending Super Bowl Champs in the first round of playoffs on a 7-9 record. If regular season wins/losses were the sole determiner of how successful a team is, then we wouldn't bother with playoffs or championships at all. Regular season wins/losses is only an indication of how good a team might be. And don't let that Seahawks example muck things up too much. It really does not matter what other teams have done in the past. It only matters whether you can compete for - and hopefully win - championships.

@whysoserious, hey SHEEP, are you a troll from go-bengals? or do you have a JOB with MFB? you said you spoke to the Reds fans after they had a winning season and they told you they would suck the next year, um, were they wrong? No they were not! Try to understand something here, SHEEP, MFB has had 2 winning seasons in 20 years! You want fans to be happy because they are 7 and 6 and have played a cupcake schedule? If I had a dime for every time a SHEEP said this team has a core of players to build around and will produce a consistent winner than I would be richer than MFB and be able to buy this team by now. This is all you need to know, the fans who are revolting by not going to the games could care less what you think, they have finally figured MFB out even though it took them 20 years to realize this. MFB will have a hard time getting 30K next year if this team does not make the playoffs and I do not see them making the playoffs. I could be wrong, but I know my Bengals unlike you. You want Cincy fans to enjoy a 7 and 6 season so far? You have low expectations I see, you see, most fans on here do not want 8 and 8 like your Dad, MFB does, just so butts will be in the seats, what we want is a Super Bowl Championship to go along with consistent years of winning. I am sorry to say this, but it is never going to happen under MFB until he changes his ways in a major way or sells the team, so you keep your Kool Aid Drinking Glasses on and enjoy the Circus because that is all this team and organization will ever be. A big fat CIRCUS!

Irony: "me" calling someone else an idiot repeatedly while not understanding verb tenses. If you're going to insult someone else's intelligence, at least make sure that your post in which you do so is well-composed and doesn't contain any easy-to-pick-out errors (ie; "have proved" when it should be "have proven").

For an example of how NOT to successfully insult someone else's intelligence, just read any of TigerJ@w's posts, which are overfull of vitriol and name-calling, but much more underwhelming when it comes to logic or facts or valid points. I believe the expression is "all piss and vinegar".

As for the debate at hand, whysoserious, you seem to have taken an overly optimistic view of this team's potential for the rest of the season. They aren't going to win out, they aren't going to make the playoffs, and that's largely due to a series of unfortunate injuries that have crippled the pass rush and exposed a secondary that was merely above-average when it had both of its starting cornerbacks and a relatively healthy nickel back. Now it has an undersized speedster, a formerly great cornerback in the decline of his career, and Adam "Pass Interference" Jones. Not exactly the the trio I want out there in week 17 against Baltimore if that's a must-win game to get into the playoffs. And, realistically, the Bengals will have to win out to make the playoffs, and while the St. Louis game this week should be a win, they'd still need to beat the surging Cardinals the following week (a team with no playoff aspirations of their own, simply looking to play spoiler for another team's playoff hopes) and then the Ravens in week 17. It's not going to happen, and I'm one of the "Kool-Aid drinkers" who thinks this team may have actually turned the corner.

I am sorry Wyatt, did I hurt your little feelings? Grow a pair dude and get some THICK SKIN! I stated the most important FACTS of all time for you Kool Aid Drinkers! At least you came to your senses and understand this team will not make the playoffs and since you have done this then what in your right mind would make you think this team has turned the corner? You sound like Mediocre Marv and MFB using the ole Injury Excuse. Do you know how many years they have used that Excuse? It is called not having depth so whose fault is this? Try to understand it all starts at the top and rolls down the hill. You will never get it! How many more years of MFB's ways and Leadership will it take for you to understand what you dream of and want will never ever happen? I will be here 10 years from now and I will point out that I am right and you will always be WRONG! I will say you will not be around in 10 years if the losing continues. Just a hunch!

Wow, Wyatt, way to bring it strong. "have proven" vs "have proved" is clearly the height of stupidity. I will remember that the next time you are making my Big Mac for me.

@TigerJ@w: Merely pointing out that you can make points without insulting and name-calling other people who comment here, although that's apparently gone directly over your head. Also, considering I've been a Bengals fan for 27 years, I don't think another decade of losing will be enough to drive me away. I doubt you'll be around though, because your incredibly pessimistic worldview and excitable nature is going to cause you to have a fatal heart attack between now and then. Sadly, when that happens, you still won't have made a worthwhile post with points based in fact and this board will remain forever devoid of your real insight, whatever it is that causes you to be so violently angry about something that's clearly out of your control (basically, the textbook definition of impotent rage). My wish for you this holiday season is for you to realize that coming on here and bitching at other fed-up Bengals fans is an exercise in futility; you're literally preaching to the choir here. Save it for forums or CincyJungle or a site like that.

@me: Excellent comeback, except for the fact that I haven't made a Big Mac in almost ten years, since I stopped working at McDonald's when I graduated from college. I realize that it stings when people point out that you're not as smart as you clearly think that you are, but try to come up with something a little more original the next time someone calls you out for it, okay? If you and TigerJ@w hadn't resorted to name-calling, I never would've mentioned either one of you. Next time, just make your arguments without insulting other people who post here, and we can have a discussion like grown-ups, okay? (Because remember, no matter how smart you think you are, there's always someone smarter waiting to point out your mistakes when you call someone else dumb.)

I think the sides are clearly drawn at this point: Whysoserious is the lone campo raising the banner of hope within the season. Myself, SWB and Wyatt at the dubious three that may have thrown in the towel on the season, but believe we've turned some sort of corner. Dan R. and TJanns remain unconvinced that any real changes have happened, but remain critical, objective and loyal, if impatient, fans. #DNOPBS, 'me' and Tiger J@W are simply angry without a clear end state. And blestrov somehow rises above us all without really showing his hand. Do I have it about right? Feel free to self-define in a later post, but I’m moving on...

Just want to address a three points. First, on the matter of last week's game: We didn't lose to a 3rd string QB. That’s just silly to think. I watched every snap and TJ’s play making didn't beat us, although, I'd like to go on record and say that TJ Yates will eventually take the reins from Schaub in about five years. Penalties are what kicked our ass, both sides of the ball, which you can argue is coaching, but I'll argue that its just as much the fault of the rookies as it is the second string players. Either way, inexperience might be a better summation. The other thing that beat us was the number 1 defense in the NFL… which we did after we played the "other" number 1 defense in the NFL the week prior. Inexperience vs huge defense equals loss almost every time. That's not really a losing culture, that's just football.

Second, I really liked that TJanns kept the important matters in the front of this argument back about 40 or 50 posts ago when he pointed out that we are still looking for
1) a GM
2) an indoor practice facility
3) a bigger scouting department
That’s really what brings out pessimistic asses together, albeit in a nutshell. My theoretical question then to everyone is this: If for some unforeseen reason, MFB does just two of these things in the off-season (and to be VERY clear: I'm not saying he will), what then? Another way; we all want MFB to step down - but if he does one of these grand concessions listed above, how then do we proceed?... my two cents is that none of these would seemingly matter because even if an indoor facility was built tomorrow and a GM hired in the off season complete with six new scouts, the team would still have to make a drive into the play offs within a couple years, something which the majority of these posts seem think isn't going to happen because this team "isn't that good" right now. Otherwise, who cares? At this point, the manifesto may need to be updated - Mike Brown must advocate the Striped Throne of the Queen City. These aren’t necessarily my feelings, mind you… I’m just meditating on what seems to be the general sediment exposed by most lately. Thoughts?

However, that leads me to my third point. I would say that we are "an above average team"... if everyone on the roster were all healthy right now. But we are not. So in reality, currently, we are a "below average team". Have we been ‘above’ average at some point this season? Looking back and considering the strength of schedule, probably not. When the whole squad was there in the first four games, Dalton couldn't convert on 3rd down to save his life and the offense was looking like it was still figuring Gruden out. About the time they started to click, we started to lose VERY key players, and when you’re a team that still defines itself with the word "average" as a base adjective then that's huge.

How are we going to look next year when we line up? We'll see on a lot of things... Draft, Free Agency, Coaching, etc. But I think it will be a better team next year, not just above average – but “good”. I think the last time I honestly thought that was at the end of the 2008 season. So am I hopeful? Sure, can't see any tangible reason not to be... little black rain clouds aside, of course.

clear end state:
Bengals win super bowl one time before I die.

necessary condition for that to happen:
Mike Brown is gone.

@gutter: I think that's a fair assessment, for me at least. I'm also the snarky asshole who used to pick fights with other commenters, but now only does that when they resort to name-calling and bullishly refuse to enter into discussions like mature adults. I maintain that for this site (and, by proxy, our message) to grow, we need to comport ourselves as rational adults, and neither whysoserious' boundless optimism or TigerJ@w's bottomless pessimism really serve to detract from this site's message as much as the in-fighting amongst us does. That's why I think it's a good thing that we're not more active with Project Mayhem tasks, because I don't think drawing potential new members to the site to see a bunch of flame posts is really the way to grow our base.

As for your question, I hate to agree with wch, but an indoor practice field isn't going to convince me that any real changes are being made, nor is simply hiring a gm. I'd prefer to see a continuation of the theme of this past offseason, wherein this team continues to establish an identity and signs/drafts players to fit that identity. I'd also like to see a front office that's dedicated to building the team from the lines out, as a solid, cohesive offensive line is something that this team hasn't enjoyed since 2005 and the degradation of that line is what led to Carson Palmer's recession as a player, as well as his injuries. Also, a competent pass rush is the difference between a below-average secondary and an above-average one, and a four-man pass rush that can consistently generate pressure on the quarterback is often enough to cover for a deficient secondary.

At this point, I'm not convinced that this team can't win with Mike Brown in charge; however, his track record has proven that for this team to become a consistent winner, his day-to-day dealings with personnel and coaching decisions absolutely needs to be minimized. Either you or blesterov has theorized for over a year now that the 2004-2006 drafts/seasons were the result of Mikey stepping back and letting Marvin have more of a say, but that Mike got gun-shy after all the player troubles in 2006 and that led to the abominable 2007 and 2008 seasons, and that Marvin has gradually been able to re-assert his control, culminating in this off-season, in which the last vestiges of the pre-Marvin era were jettisoned (Bratkowski and Ochocinco). I'm willing to believe that, but I'm holding my judgment until after the conclusion of this off-season.

By the way, Wyatt, you are wrong about "have proved" being improper grammar. It is less common, but just as valid as "have proven". So, not only did you stretch to try to find some example of being more intelligent than me, you have proven the exact opposite.

Okay, the debate seems to have shifted a bit. First, we were arguing whether this team is good or not. Now we are talking about whether this team can win with Mike as the owner.

Let me give you a parallel. George Steinbrenner. He sucked as an owner in the 70's and 80's. The Yankees were one of the weaker teams many years of this era. He meddled with management and made stupid trades and signings. He got banned from baseball operations, and suddenly the core of the Yankees formed - Jeter, Posada, Pettitte, Rivera. After this, all the Yankees could do was win.

The difference between Steinbrenner and Brown? George was willing to spend on management, players and facilities. Brown? Not so much.

So even if Mikey gets out of management decisions, he is not willing to provide the resources needed to get the job done. It is a combination of these two traits that makes Mike Brown an automatic failure for the Bengals.

Once again, first and goal from the one and we can't get it in. This time, against the worst defense in the NFL. We are not good or above average.

Great catch by Green though. Thought for sure that was overthrown.

After today's suck fest 1st half and Green's injury I'd exect 7-9 finish to this shitty season. Theyre about to lose to a 2-win team with a QB from off the street.
The most remarkable thing about 2011? The Koolaid level. Even here.

Finally, we convert on a short yardage run. First time we've needed a yard and got it all day. I'll be Guttersnake enjoyed that big return by Tate.

Speaking of punt returners, Quan Cosby just made a real dumb play in the Denver game. NE punting with 14 seconds till halftime and he drops the punt giving the Pats 3 points. Why even field that punt?

Wow the Bengals won was like waking up and checking under the Christmas tree..when I checked the NFL website scores at lunch today...I wonder if the main bloggers here will have any thoughts about today's win...I only got to see most of the 1st half, before starting work...wasn't much going on w/ offense 'cept back-to-back 3-and-outs at that point...

PS: NFL streaming on the web is awesome....most times there's an HQ stream, of most every game...

Who needs an HD subscription?

@Hof: Not a main blogger, but it was an uglier win than the score would lead you to believe, although the Rams' last seven points were basically garbage time points after Zimmer switched to prevent, which allowed Steven Jackson to catch 43 consecutive passes for around 6 yards per catch. The Bengals offense did look good in their two touchdown drives, but did very little for the rest of the game, and after they scored to go ahead 20-6, I think Marvin pulled his old "let off the gas" routine that we apparently mistaken accredited to Bob Bratkowski for a bunch of years, because the offense got super-conservative and really did NOTHING.

After this glorious victory, I am now convinced that the Bengals are on their way to the Super Bowl!

And I am also convinced of this because I personally sold the Bengals the tickets.

@Wyatt is correct about Mediocre Marvin's being responsible for letting off the gas. He's always been far too conservative... the kind of coach who can only win it all with the Ravens 2000 defense.

The Bengals played like crap and won because the other team is also c rappy. It was a penalty fest. The new right guard was bad. The Bengals OLine got shoved around on runs so Benson was about zero for every 3rd or 4th and 1.

Nice call, Dan R. I did actually take note of Tate's return... mainly because I had to be sure that it was, in fact, Tate returning it and that Marv didn't sneak Jones or Scott in there. He also let a ball that should have been fielded with a fair catch at the twenty bounce into the endzone, something he still hasn't figured out is a dangerous thing, and was fairly unremarkable most of the game. He won't be back next year, so I sleep well at night.

I saw Quan's craziness in Denver too...

The Bengals looked awful, no doubt. Gresham looked like crap, Benson could not buy a first down, and the O-Line looked confused and mildly retarded. On the very small positive, Green continues to look awesome and Rey Rey looked uncharacteristically athletic this game... his ankle must be feeling better. Best part of the game by far: Geno looked like a beast... too bad he was the only one on the front four. Geno and Reggie Nelson are really coming on strong late in the season, and I'll admit, I didn't see them playing to the level they are playing down the stretch.

The only thing that makes me even the littlest bit happy about yesterday's game was how we side stepped the sheer amount of upsets yesterday - Green Bay: LOSS - New York Jets: LOSS - Houston: LOSS - Indianapolis: WIN - New York Giants: LOSS - Baltimore: LOSS - Chicago: LOSS - Oakland: LOSS - Cleveland almost got by Arizona, Tebow's first quarter against New England, ... I know I'm making this up, but I feel like the cosmic order of the football universe was favoring underdogs yesterday.

All you need to know:

"Recently signed quarterback Kellen Clemens completed 25 of 36 passes for 229 yards and one touchdown. Clemens, who was starting over the injured Bradford and backup A.J. Feeley, posted a slightly above-average QB rating of 95.7 for the game. But for the Rams, who have only eight touchdown passes for the season, that was the best individual game rating they have had by one of their quarterbacks all season. In fact, it’s nearly 10 points better than the next best game."

A guy off the street comes in and posts the best game by a Rams QB all year.

I think Mike Brown has the team ready for the playoffs. They may not win the Super Bowl this year, but they are clearly on an upward trajectory and will be there in the next three years.

"I think Mike Brown has the team ready for the playoffs. They may not win the Super Bowl this year, but they are clearly on an upward trajectory and will be there in the next three years."

- Me, December 2005, after winning in Pittsburgh to all but lock up the division. Never again.


LOL! You really are deluded!

10 to 1 that wasn't wyatt...

Mike Brown and "upward trajectory"... two things you don't see mentioned in the same sentence very often.

Is that making the playoffs one time from among 2012, 2013, or 2014? Mediocre Marv might be able to manage that, with a quick exit.

That, of course, was not me. I would bet that it was "me", however. Any chance we can get a login system for comments to prevent these juvenile shenanigans?

I shall ignore Wyatt and his accusations. Maybe it was him who made the post, maybe it wasn't. I don't know and honestly don't care.

However, here is a piece of interesting information on the pro bowl. I simply cannot believe how many Bengals players are leading the voting right now. It is shocking! Let's see if this board allows me to add links...

@me: Very funny. Zero Bengals are leading in Pro Bowl voting. Seven Ravens. Five Patriots, Two Steelers, 1 Texan and Two Jets. The Raiders provide the K and P as per usual.

Bengals have not drafted a Pro Bowl player since Carson Palmer. The longest such streak in franchise history.

@DoNotOccupyPaulBrownStadium : How can this be? This team is so strong with their awesome record against losing teams? We have five, COUNT EM, five people in our scouting department. They scour the internets looking for the best recruits.

Doesn't surprise me that no bengals are leading the pro bowl votes because even the supposed fans on here won't vote for them. The fan voting is a popularity contest and not indicative of how good or bad individual players on the bengals. If anyone on here can even try to say Green isn't a top 10 AFC WR you need to lay off the crack pipe.

There may be only 2 WR in the AFC better than AJ Green this season... Wes Welker & Mike Wallace (stats alone) AJ is more talented in my opinion than both... not to mention it helps Andre Johnson was injured all year...


8 wins is 8 wins this isn't the BCS there are not style points. Even if the other teams are "losing" teams that still 8 teams the bengals are better than. Only in bengaldom do ppl
find a way to complain about wins. I swear they could win the Super Bowl and everyone here would say "everyone else just had a bad year"

@Whysoserious: you're just demonstrating your comprehension problems.

Do not look now, but MFB has $200M lying around to buy almost the remaining shares for the Bengals. He has this type of money, but cannot buy a bubble practice field, afford a FA in JJ, help with the maintenance of PBS, afford more scouts, etc... Sickening to even read this article! MFB is a MONGER! Well, most of all ready knew he had this type of money when he does not have to pay rent at PBS, SHEEP who continue to go to the games as they continue to lose, etc....

That article just shows why fans are not going to the games anymore. MFB will never ever care about winning.

There once was an owner named Brown
Who fleeced a Porkopolis town
Then he sat in his chair
'Till his hair barely there



I blame whoever wished they'd never been born....

Now Cincinnati's going to be called PottersBrownville

Nice to be here and see your post!

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    Bengals Futility - By The Numbers

    • 20 - Years since the Bengals have won a playoff game

      0 - Total number of playoff wins in Mike Brown's tenure as owner

      .359 - Bengals regular season winning percentage since Mike Brown took over as owner (115-206-1 in 20 seasons)

      29-34-1 - Record since 2005 playoff game vs Steelers

      6 - Seasons the Bengals have lost their first six games since 1991. No other team has more than two.

      0 - Teams North of Cincinnati without an indoor practice facility

      10 - Players arrested in a 14 month span from 2005-2006

      32 - Mike Brown's ranking, out of 32, of the "Best Owners in the NFL" by Michael Silver of Sports Illustrated in 2007

      458,000,000 - Amount, in dollars, that Hamilton County Taxpayers paid to build PBS

      2032 - Year that Hamilton County will have finally paid off its debt on the stadium deal

      3 - Total number of non-clerical employees employed in the Bengals scouting department, lowest in the league

      747,000,000 - Amount, in dollars, paid in free agency by the Bengals from 1994 - 2005, second worst of all 28 teams in existence for the duration, behind only Arizona

      118 – Ranking, out of 118 professional teams, of the “Worst Franchises” in professional sports, as ranked by ESPN the Magazine in 2003.

      97 – Ranking, out of 98 general managers in all four major sports with three or more years of experience, of Mike Brown’s performance as a GM, as ranked by Forbes in 2007.

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