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Who Dey Revolution Manifesto

  • Preamble

    IN THIS TIME of perpetual Cincinnati Bengals incompetence and futility, with zero playoff wins in the nineteen seasons since the WhoDeyRevolution Godfather, Paul Brown, passed away in 1991 and handed the team to his fortunate son, the Despot, Mike Brown;


    WE, the members of the Who Dey Revolution, in our fervent dedication to the Cincinnati Bengals and fanatical desire to transform our hometown team into perpetual Super Bowl contenders, call for a popular revolution of fans to demand comprehensive reform to the managerial decisions and approach of Cincinnati Bengals ownership, management, staff and players, and hereby call for the adoption of the following Who Dey Revolution Manifesto:

    Manifesto Demands

    THAT the Mike Brown, Katie Blackburn, Marvin Lewis, along with every other member of the Bengals management, staff and personnel, state publicly to all Bengals fans, “I will do everything in my power to help the Cincinnati Bengals win a Super Bowl;”

    THAT Mike Brown will hire a general manager, drastically expand the scouting department and relinquish all control of player personnel;

    THAT all training, rehabilitation and medical facilities are considered best-in-class compared to other NFL teams;

    THAT the management fill the team only with players who fit the system, both mentally and physically, and are not reluctant to makes changes to player personnel when needed, regardless of cost or loyalty concerns;

    THAT offensive and defensive line depth is considered the top priority for all player personnel decisions;

    THAT all decisions made by ownership, management, staff and players, both on and off the field, are judged only by this criterion: “Does this help the Cincinnati Bengals win a Super Bowl?”

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« My thoughts on the Palmer trade | Main | He Has Arisen! »

November 04, 2011


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"Keep the pressure on. It is working."
You guys are delusional

5-2 = TROLLGAZE2011. Well done sir.

I'd be more than happy to contribute to the blog if such an opening were to become available. My AJ Green v Chad guest post didn't really come out as well as I had hoped, but by the time I was done compiling all my research, my writing actually fell flat. If it helps my case, I actually write a weekly mixed martial arts column (and occasional live show coverage) on 411mania. (That's not a plug, which is why I didn't link to the site, but if you'd like me to remove the site name, just let me know.)

comments so far:One hater, one guy looking for a job, sheesh. I enjoy reading what you guys write, its worth the wait. I agree, empty seats and outside pressure made the Palmer deal get done. Saw a quote on a Titans site this week about Pac Man, Benson, Simpson et al that made me laugh: "they must have a turd magnet in Cincinnati". True.

this year enables Mike Brown for more years. so in many ways it's a step backwards.

dunno what makes me happier, the empty club seats on the tube(shameless plug for direct tv mobile) or the suddenly diverse 3rd down calls. and as a side, give Zim whatever he wants, yesterday.

violating personal or relational space, be too “in your face”, too sensitive or too insensitive, too brash, too aggressive or too timid. Believe me, I’m no stranger to putting my foot in my mouth or unintentionally offending someone. I’d like to call it my gift...but it’s not. The everyday happenings and challenges are life WODS that we can either learn from and do better

What the fuck is going on here? POst is good, comments are wierd. I tend to think that the empty box seats and blackouts are influencing MB as well, as did the cold fan response this past spring summer. On the other hand, I believe DNOPBS may be right as well (MB precedent). Pressure on with a glimmer of hope that it can produce more needed changes. Any thoughts ont he game? I see a win unless CJ wakes up and snorts some hgh or Ringer somehow explodes in his absence. Don't see Hasselback beating the D through the air more than a few times all day.

@whodeyuk: To say I was "looking for a job" is short-sighted. I have a full-time job that occupies a lot of my time, not to mention the mixed martial arts column I mentioned in my first post. That column runs on a website that gets more hits daily than this site probably gets in a year, so it's disingenuous to claim that I made my offer looking for attention. Also, as I mentioned, I've contributed a guest post here before (, so it wouldn't be totally unprecedented for me to continue to submit posts to the blog. I'm merely passionate about the cause of bringing change to the Bengals organization, and an off-shoot of that is using my writing (something I'm actually decent at) to contribute to the cause the best way I know how.

But thanks for your outright denigration of my offer - we continue to be a close-knit community around here.

We love you who dey revolution!! I too am surprised by our 5-2 start. I really thought 4-3 was a possibility because of the schedule and a Manning-less Indy is a win for everybody this season. When I think of how depressed and sick to my stomach I was in August, to be at 5 wins is inspiring for all fans I'm sure.

Everyone knows that the empty seats hurts Mikey-Boy. The sad part is that how can attendance dip lower than roughly forty thousand a game, which is an all time low? If 20 years of consistent jokes and losing didn't convince the sheeple to stay away from at least the San Fran and Buffalo games, I think there could be 40 years of losing and those folks will still be there. So I think attendance in upper 30's low 40 thousands is a win for the cause and realistically the best it can get.

And despite the streak of good luck, Bengal fans should try hard to educate some of our younger fans. I live on the east coast and I know a couple of Bengal fans who really aren't receptive to Who Dey Revolution or the anti-MFB rhetoric. They have that sickening wait and hope attitude. I'm 30 and lived through the lost decade, these 20 year olds did not.

And I will adhere to the boycott. Time to reach for that 1993 Starter pullover for the winter season if the winning continues!! Live the Revolution...

I have to say it: I told you so... This team showed signs of having the potential to be good in the preseason while everyone was freaking out about those first two really ugly games.

Marvin has done a hell of job this season. They did a fantastic job prepping for the shorter offseason; doing things like restructuring practices, conditioning, rethinking how they would implement the playbooks, etc. All of it has helped get them off to this good start and become a team of over achievers.

Brat was the last remnant of Mike Browns coaching staff from when Marvin took over in 2003, and the coaching staff and team has flourished having the staff be strictly "Marvin's". Supposedly Marvin is getting into the office earlier these days since he is happier about his team's makeup.

I'll try to post a mid-season review/ rest of the season preview next week. Overall, I see them going 8-8 or 9-7. They have a good chance of losing today, and it will take a performance of a lifetime for them to beat the Steelers and Ravens, who match up really well against the Bengals.

With those extra picks from Palmer, they have a really decent chance to take the next step next season if MFB doesn't fuck it up like he has in the past.

My only real complaint today, well, complaints, but the second one is REALLY minor, are that they let of the accelerator when they were up four points like they have so many times in the past when it cost them, and that Dunlap's TD was overturned. They looked good today, from what I saw (fell asleep at 3 pm and didn't tune in until the fourth quarter. Apparently the first half was kinda rough, but Dalton looked like Rookie of the Year in the second half.

Hard to get mad about Dunlap's lost TD; that wasn't even close (on replay) to being a lateral. Carlos is a beast though. I don't remember having someone with as much potential to be really dominant on the Bengals' defensive line in, well, maybe ever.

Hey Wyatt, remember last week when I said I thought the Jets were "significantly better" than the Bills, and you called me out for it and said the Jets had no chance to get by the Bills for the playoffs? Care to revise?

Great win yesterday. I had to watch at a bar in L.A., so I didn't get to watch as closely as I like, but I liked what I saw. Playoffs are starting to look very real. We'll still need to take at least one, preferably two, of our 4 games against the Ravens/Steelers.

Hate to pile on Wyatt, but maybe he should revisit his stance on the integrity of Penn State Athletics?

I only bring it up because of the bashing he gave out to the Buckeyes on this forum and his stance about how clean Penn State was.

@Mockenrue: I know that it wasn't a deserved touchdown but it still sucked when I was watching the game, especially since I was stewing about the ultra-conservative playcalling (which has cost the Bengals in the past - Tampa Bay in 2006 and Oakland in 2009 come immediately to mind).

@Dan R.: The Bills are still a better team. Remember last year, when the Patriots blew out the Jets in the regular season, and then remember what happened in the playoffs? When the Jets and Bills play again, the Bills will take it, and that'll keep the Jets out of the playoffs.

@WhoDeyFans: Penn State is still clean - that has nothing to do with the integrity of the program. It's a horrible situation, to be sure, and the removal of Curley, Schultz, and potentially Spanier will be a good thing for the University going forward, as their roles in covering up a scandal like this certainly deserve punishment beyond simple suspension. But as for the team itself, Paterno did the right thing in reporting the incident as soon as it was reported to him, and by the time anyone had any idea of what was going on, Sandusky hadn't been a part of the team for over three years. That'd be like me attributing all of Maurice Clarett's post-OSU legal troubles to Ohio State. Yes, it's certainly a bad stigma to have attached to your team/school; however, the incidents involving the Penn State football program directly were addressed promptly and correctly by the members of the football program; it was only after it had gone above their heads that it was handled improperly.

Also, on an unrelated note, if the playoffs started tomorrow, the Bengals would be the AFC's number one seed by virtue of tiebreakers with Baltimore (Cincy is 5-1 in the AFC, Baltimore is 4-2)...of course, the playoffs don't start tomorrow, but only half the schedule remaining, raise your hand if you foresaw this in preseason. I know I certainly didn't.


I see the points, I just hope Paterno did all that he could. Would hate for his legacy to get tarnished for this.

I also would like to raise my hand. I did predict this start from the Bengals and even have the proof.

@ Dan R. Where was your boy Tate yesterday? I'll tell you - stutter stepping and half-juking to a crap performance. To be clear: one blast-off TD return in the fourth quarter against a deflated Seattle team does not an amazing returner make. I will hang my hat on that with two points: First) The coaches will agree with me. This will be evident by Jones taking the first return of next week's critical match up, and 2) Jones will have an explosive outing, making Tate look like the bum he is.

...ah, now that that is off my chest... WHO DEY GONNA BEAT D'EM BENGALS?

If you would have told me at the beginning of the season that at the end of week 9 the Bengals would have a better record than Detroit, I would have listened to you, but called you an optimist and disagreed. If you would have said we'd have a better record than Philadelphia, I would have called you a Sheople and disregarded your argument completely. And if you would have said we'd have a better record than New England, I would walked away from you because I would have thought you were a new brand of crazy. In short, I'm stunned.

My feeling is that if you can't get fired up about this team on this week, you don't have a pulse. Let's say we win against Arizona, Cleveland and Saint Louis and drop the rest; we are still 9-7. Now let's say that we take just one game from Pittsburgh; we are 10-6... and from what I've seen, I'm actually less worried about Baltimore who notably has beaten the Steelers twice already. I know that we shouldn't win on Sunday... but we shouldn't be 6-2 either. I'm not making any predictions, just going to wait and watch.

I'll be most disappointed if the guys who post on this site don't do SOMETHING for STILLERS WEEK! This is usually as close as the Bengals come to the Super Bowl, and in years past, they went all-out to mock the Steelers and especially their fanbase. We've been loyal Revolutionaries this year in the face of a remarkably good record - can you please throw us a bone and mock Steelers fans to no end? I'll get it started by linking to KSK's "Hater's Guide to the Playoffs: Pittsburgh Steelers" entry from last year, which received a lot more comments than the New England one:

As great as Ufford's weekly Fantasy/Sex Mailbags are, this will forever be his greatest work, to me anyway.

@ Wyatt, The Jets destroyed them yesterday, were you watching? This is a team that's gone to two straight AFC title games, and you're saying they're not as good as the Bills - a team with no record of recent success, with a career backup QB, who JUST GOT CRUSHED AT HOME BY THE JETS. With assessments like that, I sure hope you're not allowed to write above the comment line any more.

@ Guttersnake, Tate sucked yesterday, you're right. But damn, the guy sealed a game by housing a TD last week and already you want him cut? Short memory. I'll remind you once again that he's above anything Quan Cosby has ever done here. He's a mixed bag. He'll make some poor decisions and juke too much at times, but he's still better than most. Pacman is great too - probably better, frankly - but he's more important playing nickle (I've not been impressed with Jennings) so I'd rather he not risk an injury returning punts.

@Dan R. - I live with a Buffalo resident/Bills fan while I'm at my job site, so I watched the entire Buffalo/Jets game yesterday, and I stand by the notion that when the season shakes out, the Bills will have the better record and end up in the playoffs. Remember when the Bengals won the AFC North in 2005? They lost to the Steelers at PBS (27-13), but beat them at Heinz Field to clinch the division later in the season. So, obviously, since the Bengals had no record of recent success and had JUST GOT CRUSHED AT HOME BY THE STEELERS, there was NO POSSIBLE WAY they'd ever beat the Steelers in Pittsburgh or win the division. Knock on my analysis all you want, but I'm capable of remember historical precendents while not putting too much stock into the Bills past few seasons. Remember how high the turnover rate is in the playoffs each year, also. When the season's over, you could very well be right, but I'd be surprised.

And, for the record, I'd take "career backup" Ryan Fitzpatrick over "marquee first-round draft pick" Mark Sanchez any day of the week.

Paterno reported it as soon as he heard about the incident? Uh, no, he didn't. He didn't report it until the next day. To the police? No. To Curley. Fail.

Sandusky continued to molest children after this event. Did you not hear the police reaction to this story? They allowed children to be raped because of their actions (or lack of action, i.e., reporting it as required by law). Sandusky continued to be welcome on campus (he was in the weight room multiple times last week) and even work with youths on PSU branch campuses. You are dispicable and disgraceful to take such a stance in this case.

And YES IT DOES MEAN PSU HAS A DIRTY PROGRAM. THEY HAVE THE DIRTIEST PROGRAM IN COLLEGE ATHLETICS. While other programs are merely trying to gain advantages to win football games, PSU is covering up child molestation. It is disgusting that your response is to defend how "clean" the program still is. Disgusting.

Also, NYT reporting today that Paterno could be out in days or weeks.

So, Mr. Holier-than-thou, "eight year olds, Dude."

You tried to rip apart OSU and their program because their HC didn't report that players were selling their own possessions in exchange for tattoos. BUT, your HC, AD, and administrator not reporting a child molestor in their midst to the authorities means nothing in regards to how clean the PSU program is? THEY WERE TRYING TO PROTECT THE PSU PROGRAM, instead of reporting to the police that a child had been raped in their locker room. You have a serious, serious problem.

"But as for the team itself, Paterno did the right thing in reporting the incident as soon as it was reported to him, and by the time anyone had any idea of what was going on, Sandusky hadn't been a part of the team for over three years." Wrong and wrong. This is so disgusting. This is all revolving around an incident that happend *in the locker room showers* so how can you say he was not a part of the program? It doesn't matter that he wasn't a coach at the time. This is still a huge problem for the PSU football program.

Kim Jones of YES, who attended PSU and reported on sports there until '99, is reporting that Paterno had a team meeting Monday and told the player he didn't know anything about Jerry Sandusky, everything came as a surprise (are you &$%#ing kidding me???). And, assistant coach McQueary was reportedly distraught and told his players he might be gone before the game on Saturday.


the more that comes out the more disgusted I become with the entire Penn State Football program, including Paterno.

Wyatt, I am afraid bungalfamily is correct and any denial by you is also pathetic.

@Wyatt, last thing I'll say: Football Outsiders, one of the most thorough and detailed analytic sited out there, ranks the Jets as the best team in football - better than the Packers.

They've got Cincy at 15, which is probably about right.

Oh, and JoPa let a guy rape kids. So there's that too.

@Dan R. - the best team in football wins every week, right? That's why the Packers are 8-0 and the Jets are 5-3. Regardless of where the Jets rank, they're not going to make the playoffs.

@Bungalfamily - funny you accuse me of a holier-than-thou attitude and then claim that you know better than the Pennsylvania grand jury (who have no ties to Penn State and no reason to protect anything there), who have cleared Paterno of all wrongdoing. Do you know why Paterno reported Sandusky to Curley in 2002? Because he wasn't a part of the coaching staff or the football program, and it was Curley, Schultz, and, ultimately, university president Graham Spanier who continued to allow Sandusky access to the campus' facilities, NOT Paterno. Please don't misunderstand me - I'm as disgusted by this whole situation as all of you are, but I'm disgusted with Curley, Schultz, Spanier, the Penn State Police Department, the Centre County Child Protective Services, and, most of all, Jerry Sandusky. And don't believe the stories that Paterno has more power than Curley or Spanier, because when I was at Penn State (Fall '98 to Fall '03), there was a constant, mounting pressure for him to be removed, and had it not been for their 2003 draft class and its subsequent impact on the program, he would've been gone over half a decade ago. He is a very influential man, yes, but that incident in 2002 fell squarely in the jurisdiction of the State College Police Department, and they're run by Gary Schultz, so he's the man who should be feeling your wrath, not Joe Paterno.

I know you are hurt, and possibly confused, but suck it up dude. There are real victims here. And, you are in indeed the holier-than-thou person on these boards. Not bungalfamily, what he says is in line with everyone else outside of the PSU fans blindly defending their coach. Just because he is not technically culpable by law, because he informed Curley, doesn't mean he fell way short of what he could, and should, have done to stop a colleague, and someone with access to his facilities, from destroying lives. A big time college football, any one of them not just Paterno, could have done way more to stop that monster (instead of tacitly aiding him).

What's funny is you trying to defend Paterno as some powerless Joe Schmoe, who's job was supposedly in jeopardy EIGHT years ago. And saved by a draft class? Are you kidding?

Where are you getting this info? Certainly not where Roxanne Jones is getting it:

"And incredibly no one, Paterno or his superiors, reported this alleged incident to the authorities. Those of us who have been on campus find it a joke that Coach Paterno would now say that he reported the incident to his bosses. What bosses? Everyone knows Paterno had as much or more power on that campus than anyone to make things happen, including the president."

You should read the rest of that article too. Turns out PSU has other skeletons in the closet--homophobic women's basketball coach, racist cheerleading adviser.

As I recall you were the one who believed everything ever written about Terrelle Pryor and the SI story about OSU. Funny how things have changed. What's disgusting is real crimes in this case. Not wanting to judge Paterno at this point is arguably valid, but protestingly defending him is disgusting and inexcusable. I would be ashamed to defend someone who didn't report it to the authorities that weekend or anytime after.

Will Mike Brown try to redeem Haynesworth?

Will Hayneseworth play again in the NFL?

Will he play for 5 bucks a game, and/or Dennys coupons?

Will Zimmer throw a fit when he finds out from Mikey, and say 'Hell no, do not undermine the war machine I am working on, do not sign his sorry ass' ?

Told his "boss"? WTF? A person's one and only duty in a situation where they are told that a child has been raped is to run, not walk, to the nearest telephone to call the Police Department. Using his walker if necessary, in Jo Pa's case. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200.

Sorry, but protecting child rapists? The Nittany Lions football program should get the death penalty, ASAP.

Whoa: "the Pennsylvania grand jury (who have no ties to Penn State and no reason to protect anything there), who have cleared Paterno of all wrongdoing."

Actually, as another commenter pointed out, they cleared him of legal culpability. No one has, or should, clear him of "wrongdoing." A guy sees a kid getting raped in the shower, tells Joe, and his response is to tell the A.D.? Look, first of all, the kid who saw that should have gone to the police, not JoPa. This is not a football matter, it's a criminal matter. Second, we don't know what he told Paterno, so if he only said "I saw something bad..." then I can understand some hesitancy (though I highly doubt he didn't get into any specifics).

All that said, at a bare minimum Paterno was aware that on more than one occasion, and after being warned once, the guy had been in a shower with an underage boy. I supposed telling the A.D. is barely acceptable as an initial response, but if nothing happens and you don't follow up with someone else (the police!), then you become just as bad as the administrators covering it up. Maybe not legally, but certainly morally.

Why is it so hard for you to understand that Gary Schultz, THE GUY WHO RUNS THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, was informed of this matter the same day Paterno was told about it? Why do you refuse to understand that the account Paterno received from Mike McQuery wasn't as graphic as it probably should've been?

A friend of mine (and fellow Penn State grad) put it better than I could've, with regards to what Paterno could/couldn't do: "He cannot take any action unilaterally that could or would hurt PSU. Furthermore, this was not an issue with either a member of his staff or one of his players. His hands essentially were tied. If he called the police and the allegations proved unfounded those actions most certainly would harm his employer. So, what he did was took it up the chain, as he was obligated to do, just as the graduate assistant took it up the chain by informing him. It was on the administrators who he did inform of the allegations who swept it under the rug to act. Acting on this WAS in their job descriptions. The fact that they chose not to allowed how many more children to be abused? The whole situation makes me sick. However, this is the reason that those two administrators are in jail and Joe Paterno has been cleared of wrong doing. Should he have followed up, perhaps. We can't know what the entire situation was and shouldn't judge him. I will say that if there was ANY hint at all that he was accountable for what happened here, he would be charged as well."

"If he called the police and the allegations proved unfounded those actions most certainly would harm his employer."

No, that's not the way it works. It's not a person's moral responsibility to give a shit about the reputation of Penn State or Penn State Football when someone has witnessed the rape of a 10 year old. Sorry. The correct response is call the Police Department and speak to a badge wearing police officer. Not an administrator. Not a University staff member.

They're going to have make a "Law and Order: Special Penn State Pedophile Crimes Unit"

"Take it up the chain." Good advice. Next time I find out a coworker is raping a 10 year old boy, I'll be sure and let my boss know.

Also, when you describe Gary Shultz as "the guy who runs the police department" in all caps, you're implying that he has some sort of role or training in law enforcement, as if he were the Chief of Police or something. In fact, he's "Senior Vice President for Finance," and his background is in academic administration. In fact, he's had one job his entire life: he went to work for Penn State at age 21 immediately after graduating from Penn State.

Stop digging.

That doesn't change the fact that if he told the Chief of Police to open an investigation into Jerry Sandusky, the chief would have had no choice but to do so. That never happened, though, so it's clearly Joe Paterno's fault. He's a monster.

Fuck I hope none of you guys are Catholics, or the hypocrisy evident here would be enough to melt down the internet.

"Why do you refuse to understand that the account Paterno received from Mike McQuery wasn't as graphic as it probably should've been?"

Are you kidding? 1. 60 year old guy 2. 10 year old boy 3. shower. WHAT THE ELSE DO YOU NEED TO KNOW? Jesus, I'm ashamed to even be talking to you. You are a terrible human being and you EVER contribute an article on this site, I will never return to it again. Get help.

The only confirmed action by Paterno was calling Curley the AD the next day. He attended a meeting with Schultz whom oversees the campus police but is not the police.
The campus police was never notified.
Again the only moral action by the grad assistant; his father; Paterno that weekend was immeadately contact the police either the state or campus. A minor may have been in mortal danger that weekend; to date the minor has not come forward so no one knows what happened to him.
This wasnt a chain of command issue; it was a child at risk that weekend and it is abhorable that no one involved notified the police.

No one is saying it's Joe Paterno's fault or that he's a monster - just that he shares in the culpability. Well, everyone but you is saying that. In this situation, telling your boss is not enough. Maybe legally, but not morally.

Sandusky is the only monster here, and Paterno's not as culpable as Shultz or Curly, and certainly not as much as McReary (who saw a guy raping a 10 year old, made eye contact with them (!), then walked away and called his dad to ask him what to do).

Still, at a minimum he knew about a 60 year old man showering with and "doing something of a sexual nature" with a kid. When his superiors failed to act, he should have done something.

"Penn State is clean," "Paterno did the right thing," "he took it up the chain," ... come on dude. I know you're smarter than that.

Here's the best read I've seen:

"No one can possibly believe that Paterno, when informed by a panicked graduate assistant that something untoward had happened in the shower involving a man and a boy, could have synthesized that information into anything requiring that he merely advise his supervisor and then forget about it. This notion, on its face, is patently absurd. But when you add other elements – like the fact that the graduate assistant was Mike McQueary, who Paterno once trusted to play quarterback for him and later gave a full time job to – you have no choice but to realize that Paterno whisked the information aside to protect his program and his friend, in that order. Now he has to obscure the issue by trying to turn it into an issue of semantics, saying that he didn't know the "very specific actions" that allegedly happened in the shower -- as if he needed that level of detail to know whether it was right or wrong."
PSU alum, Chris Korman

Also, another fact about this supposedly clean program from that article: from 2002 to 2008, 46 players were charged with 163 counts. Yikes.

And then there's this, too:

"I covered one sexual assault trial -- for former Ravens cornerback Anwar Phillips, who was acquitted but went on to stay classy (what the link fails to note is that after "accepting responsibility" for his role in the incident at Penn State, Phillips was allowed to play in a bowl game before serving his two-semester suspension) -- and looked into probably a half-dozen others that never went to trial."

This is from Dan's link:

"Now here is the detail that, among all the details in the Grand Jury’s extensive depiction of the morally depraved behavior of Sandusky, Curley, Schultz, Paterno, PSU president Graham Spanier, and McQueary, is perhaps the most shocking: Five years after this, in the spring of 2007, Sandusky was attending PSU football practices with his latest rape victim: a 12-year-old boy who he had met through a Second Mile camp conducted at PSU, and who he was in the process of, among other things, orally sodomizing."

Wow. If that is At practices with a boy in 2007? You are morally bankrupt if you support Paterno. And seriously stop crying about Paterno's hands being tied (and if they really were he should have threatened to quit rather than being a part of this, but like every other rational person who has written about this scandal has said: he was protecting his program and his friend). He does what he wants, when he wants. He just told the board to immediately stop reviewing his status in his retirement statement. (Remember how you tried to claim he doesn't have that much power and his job was in jeopardy?)

I'm with the masses on this one, but I'll take it a step further.

You've got six or seven people whose basic (legal) defense is that they followed protocol, and therefore are non-culpable. What I think is important to understand is that those protocols are created, renewed, and enforced by Penn State. Moreover, these were the policies of the athletic department, which were again, self-created and self-imposed. Look, I'm a Military Officer and as such, I have a moral responsibility inherent with to my station… but that is a direct reflection of the Army as an organization and the leadership principals that it holds its leaders to. As an institution, I call Penn State wholly into question.

Paternos defense is that he was just following protocol. Two reasons this is no defense or even an excuse at all. 1) following protocol is not leadership and Paterno was most certainly a leader. Simply stated, it is a cop-out for any leader to fall back on “I was just following regulation”. Leaders make protocol, they are not held prisoner by it. Period. and 2) silence is consent. By agreeing with the policy of a morally bankrupt institution then you complicitly become morally bankrupt yourself.

Another way: if one of my men found a Soldier raping another Soldier (or child), even during a time of war, and it was reported to me as the commander, then yes; I have a responsibility to discipline / seize / arrest that alleged Soldier and follow due course. However, if as a commander I fail to do this, then the reporting Soldier has a legal 'and' moral obligation under the Uniform Code of Military Justice to ignore my orders, whatever they may be, and proceed to the next higher commander until the matter is given the proper attention. This was part of the Army's Zero Tolerance Policy changes in the late 80s and early 90s, which were brought about by military and governmental leaders.

Paterno had the chance to be that type leader when this was put in front of him and show not only the faults in the policies of his institution but his strength and character as a coach and leader. He didn't. His failure as a man who was an icon to generation upon generation of young Penn State alumni is what makes this the most tragic situation of all. If a man like Paterno can't be counted on to stand up, then who left in this world is?

Paterno got fired.

But they should still give the entire program the Death Penalty.

Various people in all countries receive the personal loans in different creditors, because this is easy and fast.

First off, I'd like to apologize to every visitor of this site over the past week who saw any of my comments regarding the Penn State scandal. I was hurt, and I was in denial, and I was in shock - that doesn't excuse what I said or the fact that I was making excuses for something that is truly inexcusable. After reading guttersnake's comment yesterday, I decided to go back and review everything that I could find with a more objective eye, instead of through blue-and-white glasses, and I have to admit that I'm appalled. Not just with Jerry Sandusky, Tim Curley, and Gary Schultz, as I have been since the news broke, but also with Mike McQuery, Joe Paterno, Graham Spanier, the rioting Penn State students, and, most of all, with myself. I grew up a Penn State fan, and Paterno has basically been a minor deity in Pennsylvania since before I was born (I'm 31 now), so it was excruciating for me to realize (and yes, to admit) that he made a horrible mistake in not pressing for a full investigation of Sandusky in 2002. For a man that's spent nearly a half-century molding the lives of young men and has also championed academics and honor above on-field achievement, such a lapse in moral character is both hard to believe and impossible to defend. And somehow I don't think the thousands upon thousands of lives that he's improved for the better (including players and their children and in some cases grandchildren) can even be used to balance out the 7 or more lives that are likely ruined as a result of Jerry Sandusky's continued depredations after 2002. And while I'm ashamed that I attempted to defend the indefensible for the better part of four days, I'm not ashamed of my university (although the current student population rioting is certainly a poor representation of the overall student body) and I'm not as reactionary as you Ohio State fans have been, calling for the termination of the football program. The current team is at least two full-team turnovers removed from what happened in 2002, when Sandusky was banned from bringing children to the main campus, so they have absolutely nothing to do with the horrors that he perpetrated, and they shouldn't be punished for the failures of the administration.

To reiterate, I apologize for my comments regarding this matter for the past few days, and I appreciate all of you doing your best to open my eyes to a truth that I was (at the time) unwilling to see.

And I will leave you with this gem - had Joe Paterno gone to the police in 2002, they would not have been able to do anything about whatever he told them, due to Pennsylvania's fucked-up laws at the time. Until 2007, the police could only act on a report if it was from an eyewitness who actually saw it happening (or the person who it happened to). So Paterno's moral lapse wasn't not going to the police, who wouldn't have been able to do anything anyway, it was in not encouraging McQuery to go to the police, as he was the only one (besides the boy in question) who could've done anything to start an investigation. And yet, somehow, today, Paterno has lost his job, yet McQuery still has his.

Well said Wyatt, always tough to admit when you're wrong (as I often am). Your last post though is a little off. The police could certainly act on it. The distinction in law has to do with reporting standards. As of a couple years ago I was a prosecuting attorney, so I know a little about this.

Not everyone is legally obligated to go to the cops if they find out about sexual abuse, only those whose jobs are such that they have a fiduciary-like relationship with kids, so the law places an affirmative duty to report - teachers being the classic example. In 2002, PA law said that you only had a duty to report if you heard the story directly from the victim. Now it says that you still have to report, even if it's hearsay (as it was when McQuery told Paterno).

So Paterno was not legally obligated to tell the police (and still isn't since PA law apparently only applies to Curly, Shultz and PSU administrators). And in fact, Curly and others may get off since they didn't hear about this directly from the victim.

Nonetheless, had Paterno gone to the police in 2002, they would have had a reasonable basis to act on that evidence. Hell, coming from a guy like Joe Paterno, that alone probably would have been probable cause for an arrest warrant for most central Pennsylvania judges. In otherwords, Paterno's moral lapse (and McQuery's, and everyone elses) is in thinking about the good of the program instead of going to the police.

I think it's the right call for them to fire Paterno (Saturday would have been one big pro-JoPa pep rally), but I can't believe they didn't fire McQuery first.

Also, for the record (though it was never raised) I'm an OSU grad and I think Tressel deserved to be fired. He broke the rules, though I do think the underlying rule that led to the failure to report (a player can't sell his own stuff) is stupid.

Dan R. - thank you for the clarification. I was under the impression that the police were unable to act unless it came from a direct eyewitness. And I do agree that Paterno should've pushed for an investigation, regardless of whether or not he could do so in an official capacity.

I can actually see why the rule that got Tressel, Pryor, et al, is in place, as those uniforms were given to the players by the university as part of their athletic scholarship and selling/trading them for material gain when they are, in fact, university property isn't right, but the worst suspension would go to the Bengals' own AJ Green, who was suspended for raffling a game-worn jersey off FOR CHARITY. He received no personal gain from it, and I'm willing to bet that more than a few universities have done something similar.


Good comments. I for one never called for the death penalty of the football program. I did call for everyone involved being removed. The two schools crimes and punishments should not be compared because there are no similarities other than the dishonesty to protect the program.

I still don't understand how McQuery has a job. I don't know why he didn't stop what he saw instead of calling his dad.

I have no way of knowing what went through McQuery's mind on that fateful day, but I would guess it has something to do with the fact that he was on the team when Sandusky was still a coach. I'm sure he was shocked to see something like that happening, especially since it involved someone that I'm sure, at one point or another, he looked up to. It still wasn't right to let it continue or to not report it to the police, but I can only guess at the shock and panic he must've been experiencing, which is what I hope caused his indecision and inaction.

Wyatt, I was referring to the Big Ten championship ring.

Ah, my mistake, again. I assumed you were referring to jerseys and the like, which I believe were also traded/sold.

I hate to be the guy that bitches and moans on message boards, but this is steeler week, the bengals are 6-2, Steelers are 6-3. Throw me a freaking bone.


I don't think they're going to do anything, so I'll relink to the KSK "Hater's Guide to the Playoffs: The Pittsburgh Steelers" that I posted before all the Penn State stuff distracted from Steelers week. Even though it's several months old now, it's still funny and still appropriate this week:

I asked if I could make it worse by swimming. He said, "probably not, but we don't really know. If you do make it worse, we think it could be easily fixed." Hmmm. I'll hold off on swimming for the next few weeks and then give it another shot. I'm also having trouble holding my upper body weight on the bike; hopefully PT can help with that as well.

The Pittsburgh Steelers" that I posted before all the Penn State stuff distracted from Steelers week

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    Bengals Futility - By The Numbers

    • 20 - Years since the Bengals have won a playoff game

      0 - Total number of playoff wins in Mike Brown's tenure as owner

      .359 - Bengals regular season winning percentage since Mike Brown took over as owner (115-206-1 in 20 seasons)

      29-34-1 - Record since 2005 playoff game vs Steelers

      6 - Seasons the Bengals have lost their first six games since 1991. No other team has more than two.

      0 - Teams North of Cincinnati without an indoor practice facility

      10 - Players arrested in a 14 month span from 2005-2006

      32 - Mike Brown's ranking, out of 32, of the "Best Owners in the NFL" by Michael Silver of Sports Illustrated in 2007

      458,000,000 - Amount, in dollars, that Hamilton County Taxpayers paid to build PBS

      2032 - Year that Hamilton County will have finally paid off its debt on the stadium deal

      3 - Total number of non-clerical employees employed in the Bengals scouting department, lowest in the league

      747,000,000 - Amount, in dollars, paid in free agency by the Bengals from 1994 - 2005, second worst of all 28 teams in existence for the duration, behind only Arizona

      118 – Ranking, out of 118 professional teams, of the “Worst Franchises” in professional sports, as ranked by ESPN the Magazine in 2003.

      97 – Ranking, out of 98 general managers in all four major sports with three or more years of experience, of Mike Brown’s performance as a GM, as ranked by Forbes in 2007.

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