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Who Dey Revolution Manifesto

  • Preamble

    IN THIS TIME of perpetual Cincinnati Bengals incompetence and futility, with zero playoff wins in the nineteen seasons since the WhoDeyRevolution Godfather, Paul Brown, passed away in 1991 and handed the team to his fortunate son, the Despot, Mike Brown;

    Introduction

    WE, the members of the Who Dey Revolution, in our fervent dedication to the Cincinnati Bengals and fanatical desire to transform our hometown team into perpetual Super Bowl contenders, call for a popular revolution of fans to demand comprehensive reform to the managerial decisions and approach of Cincinnati Bengals ownership, management, staff and players, and hereby call for the adoption of the following Who Dey Revolution Manifesto:

    Manifesto Demands

    THAT the Mike Brown, Katie Blackburn, Marvin Lewis, along with every other member of the Bengals management, staff and personnel, state publicly to all Bengals fans, “I will do everything in my power to help the Cincinnati Bengals win a Super Bowl;”

    THAT Mike Brown will hire a general manager, drastically expand the scouting department and relinquish all control of player personnel;

    THAT all training, rehabilitation and medical facilities are considered best-in-class compared to other NFL teams;

    THAT the management fill the team only with players who fit the system, both mentally and physically, and are not reluctant to makes changes to player personnel when needed, regardless of cost or loyalty concerns;

    THAT offensive and defensive line depth is considered the top priority for all player personnel decisions;

    THAT all decisions made by ownership, management, staff and players, both on and off the field, are judged only by this criterion: “Does this help the Cincinnati Bengals win a Super Bowl?”

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November 11, 2011

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First sensible post I've read on this site. Intriging thoughts about the state of the franchise.

What is this "Black Jesus" shit? Sounds racist.

Yeah, I agree... maybe Marvin Lazarus?

Good article. This game feels just like the 2009 game against the Raiders, when Bruce G. was on the other side of the field from The Stripes. I'm sold on the fact we can when, I'm just prayin' we actually do!

Just so racism comment gains no legs, I updated the post to clarify his nickname.

Marvin was affectionally given the name "Black Jesus" by the players in 2003 and the fans adopted it since he came to Cincy to resurrect the franchise. No offense was intended.

My point is that it seems like the man that arrived here in 2003 with the intent to carry out this site's manifesto has finally returned.

Great read, Blester. Truth be told, I've stayed away from WDR for some time now, mostly because I (wrongly) assumed that there would be a lot of "waiting for the other shoe to drop" and/or "they're not that good" sentiment here. To be frank, I'm not quite in the mood to be down at all this season--especially when most of us Bengal fans wrote this season off as a rebuilding one where we could expect no more than 6 wins. How many do they have again at the halfway point of the season? Oh yeah...6.

Well played here and I agree with most of what you said. A couple of things though:

1.) Paul Alexander is still on staff. He's been here like 15 years. He's a Mike Brown holdover, no doubt, and though he's doing OK with what they have on that line, I still think improvement could be made there.

2.) Completely agree with the statement about finding players fitting into a system. I've long said that the Bengals have had a ton of talented players over the years, but the issue lied in the fact that they'd have 3-4 personnel in a 4-3 defense and/or "taken the best player available" following a 4-12-type season when they shouldn't have that luxury.

3.) Marvin deserves a lot of credit, no doubt. But, I think the "behind the scenes" person maneuvering the Bengals to what they've done so far is...Katie Blackburn. Every fan harps on the scenes from "Hard Knocks" where she grinds Andre Smith's agent for a deal, but I truly believe that she LOVES Marvin and has the same vision that he does. Furthermore, she's got daddy's ear so I think she's feeding MB ideas that her and Marvin share. There were rumors that she was the one who pushed MB to take the Carson deal from the Raiders.

2011 has been a great year--let's beat the Steelers on Sunday!

blesterov:

Thank you for the clarification re: "Black Jesus". I am removed from the city of Cincy and the fanbase, so I was unaware of the nickname.

Please accept my apologies for suggesting racist implications.

I think the whole pronouncing of anything at this point, especially with respect to franchise turnarounds, is pretty frickin silly! They're 6-2 against a mostly cake schedule. Let them play the next five against real teams and the Browns, and then we'll talk about whether it was a mirage or the start of something good.

Don't get me wrong, the fact that they didn't go 2-6 or at best 3-5 in the first half is a surprise.

But I have my doubts. They still don't cover the other team's tight end. The OL isn't that good. They're running on first down more than any team in the NFL, even though Bratworst is gone. [And running on first down against the Steelers and Ravens, with this offensive line, is a recipe for losing!]

@ Steve A:

The Bills and Titans are solid teams -- they shouldn't count for nothing.

Also, I don't understand the media lovefest this week over the Ravens. Does nobody remember that in the previous 2 weeks, they got beat by the Jags and barely escaped the woeful Cardinals at home? Oh, and what were their 2 losses? Right, the Jags and Titans, 2 teams the Bengals beat. So if the Bengals can be legitimately discounted because of their schedule, what does it say about the Ravens when they've beat some quality teams (PIT twice, HOU, NYJ), yet has also been beat (or nearly so) by markedly inferior teams? Maybe, just maybe, they're just not as good as everyone thinks. The Ravens have not changed: solid defense, incredibly inconsistent offense.

I'm just the opposite of blesterov. I'm more concerned about the Steelers than I am about the Ravens. In fact, I think we'll sweep the Ravens.

@#DoNotOccupy - according to Yahoo sports fantasy football, the Bengals are giving up the 22nd most fantasy points to tight ends. I'm not sure how that translates to real world stats, but it's not exactly "not covering" them.

I disagree about covering the TE's. After week 1, the Bengals have shut down opposing TE's very well. In my league, the Bengals are rated #11 against the TE. The only double digit games have been Cleveland, Indy (Clarks TD), and SF (from giving up 123 yards). The other five games have been 5 points or less. Are they shutting them down completely? Not by any means. But are they getting killed by the TE like they have in the past? Not at all, and there is an obvious improvement from years past. Today will tell a lot about if they have actually improved against the TE.

SLB has been a major hole on this team for the past couple of years, whether it was them filling it with Jenty or training Rey. Lawson has come in and done a great job in Zimmer's system, and they potentially have depth behind him with Moch if he develops.

If Dunlap sits today that is really going to hurt their chances, and it looks like he is going to be out. He would have matched up really well against their crappy RT. If he is out, other guys really need to step it up to get after Ben, who could have a good game today against our weak safeties and CB's if he has time. Both teams are going to have to pass b/c neither of them should be able to run the ball effectively

I think either the Steelers blow us out if they can cause Dalton to make mistakes or it is decided in the last couple of minutes of the game. Regardless this should be a very physical game to watch. With the key injuries the Bengals have, I have the edge going to the Steelers.

You know, I was going to say it... I was thinking along the same lines as Jeremy. The irony of this (which actually works in The Bengals favor) is that the Steelers have lost to the Ravens twice already, which puts them in a bit of a spot. If they drop just one more game to either us or the Browns (who they haven't played yet either), then the best they can do is .500 in the AFC North. Further, I too think that the Ravens riding very high on strangely-motivated media hog, and yes, they are very beatable, maybe sweepable? The X-Factor in all this is the Cleveland Browns who haven't played Pitt or Baltimore yet. Even though they aren't nearly as good as I thought they would be this year, I don't think they will let the entire AFC North walk on them this year.

So what does this mean? Lets talk about it...

If Shitsburgh drops just one more game to either us or the Browns, then the best they can do is .500 in the AFC North. Baltimore hasn't played us or Cleveland. The Texans and the Jets are good wins, but not great; and their losses to The Jags and The Titans (almost The Cards...) showed their ass. This team will not sweep the AFC North... how many loses they take is the real question. Cleveland will beat Pitt or Baltimore once in that mix for sure... probably Baltimore. So assuming The Bengals only win once against Baltimore and sweep The Browns, and the Browns beat Baltimore once, then we could see inner-division records that looks like this...

Balt - 4-2
Pitt - 4-2
Cin - 3-3
Cle - 1-5

...leaving us in third place... This is the most likely scenario for us, I think. However, a couple of ifs: (assuming we sweep the Browns)

- IF Cincinnati wins one game from either Pittsburgh or Baltimore and Cleveland splits with Pittsburgh and does nothing else, we lock second place.
- IF Cincinnati splits games with Baltimore and Pittsburgh as well as swepting Cleveland, then we lock second place, and possibly tie for first.
- IF Cincinnati sweeps Baltimore and Cleveland, there will be a three-way tie for first.
...and most importantly...
- IF Cincinnati sweeps Baltimore, and Cleveland splits with Baltimore, we win the division.

The take away here is none of these games are affected by the outcome of today's game; in other words, losing to The Steelers is a non-factor because they have already fucked themselves to a degree. BUT... on the off-chance we do win today...?

...all we have to do is beat Cleveland, and we are tied for second in the AFC North.

At a minimum.

Ah crap. Nevermind...

ha ha funny self-response. He's a rookie, that type of thing was bound ot pop up at some point in an inaugural campaign, too bad though, the D played well enough to keep them in the game. I thought Heath Miller was going to have whiplash after Reggie nailed him over the middle early.

Defense was not that good today. The DL played well but the defensive backs were exposed. Without Hall they're really candidates for toasting.
On offense it's a bit difficult to prosper when they don't throw much to the running backs, they seem to use Gresham in the role that you would normally use running backs (dump off passes), and the wide receivers after AJ Green are not reliable at all. Most of the targets of Simpson and Caldwell fell incomplete. They just aren't cutting it.

All in all, the usual showing. At their best, the Bengals mostly make these games "close" so that Mike Brown can talk about being "competitive". But rarely actually winning the damn things. The Steelers just know how to win and always seem to have the talent.

It's comforting to see that the old pattern of Bengals fandom continues. Front office never changes, teams never have post-season success, fans vow to stop supporting the team and do everything they can to force Mike Brown to change, then the Bengals squeeze out a few meaningless wins in a row and people are tripping over themselves to get back on the bandwagon. It's as reliable as the swallows of Capistrano.

Today the pundits pat the Bengals on the back for "hanging tough" with the Steelers. A loss is a loss. It's pretty sad when even moral victories are celebrated now. "Hey, we didn't get our asses kicked! Who-dey!!"


In coaching these leaders I often hear the same thing said again and again: "They are going to have to understand that I am going to be a missional leader now. I'm not going to be in the hospital or at their homes holding their hands like I used to." Half of me wants you cheer, "Hurray!" when I hear that. The other half cringes in fear that the baby may be getting tossed out with the bath water.

@Jackopablo: I think a lot of pundits today are saying "Bengals got exposed as pretenders". Only the Koolaid drinkers are celebrating the "competitiveness".

Thing is the division is somewhat pretenders, look at the Ravens losing in Seattle. Same team beat the Steelers down hard and will probably beat down the Bengals next Sunday.

Bengals need to be able to get into rhythm faster. It took them 12 min. to get a first down. I also worry about the DB's. However, Bengals beat themselves yesterday. Key plays:

Dropped Int by Nelson on Pitt scoring drive.

Shitty holding call on Whitworth that force us to punt instead of giving us a first down around the Steeler 20 or 30

Green and Hall getting hurt.

Rothlisturd touchdown pass where he clearly went over line of scrimmage.

Well that didn't take long! Oh well, you still have the dunce, MBMB in charge and don't forget that. He isn't going to change and he is still going to be a dunderbuss. This isn't going to change either but that there is winning in these here hills, well it will continue as long as MBMB still wins -- but don't forget, still a dunderbug! Rememeber the last playoff situation, everyone gave the coach the 'black-Jesus' status and then wanted his fucking head within a year. Don't forget that. It will happen again, folks, just give it time. Assholes ALWAYS ring true to form! You might have a chance again to get rid of the scourge that is the MBMB idiocy/legacy. Just don't fuck it up this time -- and those "Johnny-come-lately's", go back to your sports bars and tell everyone how much of a toolbag you are.

Obviously picks didn't help either, tho Dalton only at fault for one.

Simpson needs to challenge for the ball more. He gets pushed around out there.

The schedule is the main reason they have six wins thus far. I'm sorry, but it really is just that simple. But please feel free to over analyze. :)

Test post... I can't seem to post anything!

@#DoNotOccupy - Seriously? Did you watch the same game I did? Defense was "not that good"? Chick it out, love 'em or hate 'em, Shitsburgh went to the Super Bowl last year and has a Super Bowl caliber passing game. Zimmer's Boys collapsed the pocket at will, getting all over Big Ben for four quarters. The secondary, while not nearly as clean as it could be, still managed a pick and never gave up the long ball. Most impressive to me though was there was virtually no YAC for Pitt. Like white on rice.

While I agree, a loss is a loss; this has been from the beginning, a rookie's year, a year to build and assess. That was what the "Bengals Fandom" of this site was saying almost as a whole at the start of the season. (except for the usual little black rain cloud fans) Thus far our success is largely a pleasant by-product (for those of us who can actually enjoy a winning record), but I think that anyone is nuts if you think that our fan-base is as delusional as say Denver's is. This game WAS a huge gauge, win or loss, because its the first time we saw a post-season-level passing offense and a post-season-level defense up close and personnel. If we'd have lost like Tampa Bay's young bucks did this weekend, then I'd be as salty as the rest of you, but you got to keep this all in perspective.

But let me address a few comments:

-"wide receivers after AJ Green aren't reliable" Maybe yesterday our wideouts looked weak, I'll give you that. But a blanket statement like that just sounds... dumb. Dalton (rookie) still went for 170 yards against a LeBeau Defense and his favorite target was... Andrew Hawkins (rookie) for five passes and 56 yards. Now, when you get a sec, count how many different Bengals have caught TDs from Dalton this season... then find me another team that has that many options. PS, the vast majority of these receivers are all four years or under in the NFL.
-"they seem to use Gresham in the role that your would normally use running backs (dump off passes)" No. The Bengals are finally using their tight end like a tight end. This may be odd or hard to recognize for Bengals fans because we really didn't use our tight end for something like nine years. Some teams (Ravens) use their running back out of the back field as SOP, but most teams don't. Why? Because most running backs can't catch the ball as well as the rest of the receiving corps... if they could, they'd have been wide outs.
-"on offense, it's a bit difficult to prosper when they don't throw much to the running backs" See above. While I'll give you that this is a factual observation, I disagree completely with your analysis. Example: Chicago... or Pittsburgh. How many passes did Mendenhall catch again? One.
-@Steve - "the schedule is the main reason they have six wins thus far." Yes, that is a factor, but not the fact. Seattle, Tennessee, Jacksonville - all wins. For Baltimore - not so much. Who is the better team?... don't answer, that's rhetorical.

@Jackapablo. Let's be real...the pattern of Bengal Fandom is not so much the "sheople" as it is that when we lose a game, the fan-based peanut gallery talk about the front office, the coaches, the rest of the fan base, how nothing will ever (meaning can never) change and has forgetten to actually take the time to talk about the game or the team. That being said, there is a new and growing fan-based demographic that isn't that stupid. Was I the only one that noticed that even though this game "sold out", the entire middle band of seating (MFB non-profit-shared seating) was strangely empty yet again?? It doesn't take a brain to see that someone, maybe the front office, ate those tickets to try and spark interest in The Queen City Tigers and at the same time get some televised love in order to reap a degree of advertisement revenue in order to off-set losses from ticket sales. Fail MFB, you're scraping and it would appear that we ain't buyin! Seems the fans are as sheep-like as some would believe. Viva WDR!

...lastly, I've had the TV on most of the day, enjoy the last of my Veteran's Day weekend. "I think a lot of pundits today are saying 'Bengals got exposed as pretenders'." Wrong. Thus far, those with high praise for the Bengals:
- Mike & Mike
- Eric Mangini
- Herm Edwards
- Skip Bayless
- Emmett Smith
- Kurt Warner
- Dan Patrick
- Bill Cower (I know, right?)
Ironically, the only person who had negative words was Boomer... but I think he and Shannon Sharpe are really self-righteous pricks behind that desk.

...oh and @wch: I still have no idea what you are saying.

Oh yeah...

@ Neutered Bengal. Great comments. I completely agree, we made that interception, not only do we take away a Pitt TD and add something like eight and a half minutes on the clock (Pitt had a long scoring drive after Hall and Nelson didn't come up with it) but we also we instantly in field goal range. Who knows, if we'd have converted, that's a 14 point swing of the game!

I know that's A LOT of what ifs, but hey, the game was right there a couple times.

I hate to say it, but this loss was 100% injury induced.

Gruden & Dalton held their own against the Steelers Def. Gruden does need to get better in the first half, but some of that falls on Dalton for over throws. It is like he is amped up at the start of a game since he has consistently done this as far back as the pre-season and even camp. He needs to settle down so they can be more productive in the first quarter.

Defense did a decent job, but they could have done better. Almost every big play was Ben lengthening the play by getting away from the pressure and then picking apart our weak secondary. His first TD pass should have been a flag, but I guess that is not reviewable for some reason... Zimmer again worked his magic in the second half, which is amazing b/c it very difficult to stop a team when you only have 2 CB's available for an entire half.

Had they had Dunlap, the sack total and pressure generated would have been a lot better. Zimmer probably could have laid off the blitzes that ended up killing them. Most of the pressure was generated with the four man front.

Had Green not gone down, you now have a deep threat in the final 5 minutes of the game to help stretch the field and take a couple of shots. Losing both Shipley and Green really killed any depth that they had. Ben Tate better start running routes in practice.

If any analyst is saying that this game proves the Bengals are pretenders, they are morons. This just proves my belief that "analysts" are there just to sensationalize and provide hype - not substance. They are like weathermen, they don't get a pay cut for getting things wrong. Case in point all "pundits" are saying the Redskins are horrible after their great start. No, they have just had a significant amount of injuries on the OL and skill spots. How are they supposed to put up points? But ironically the media ignores this fact and blames it on their QB's or Shanahan, which is 100% misdirected on purpose.

As I said in my comment above, the edge went to the Steelers heading into the game. The edge only increased with the two key injuries before the half, and they managed to take advantage of that edge. Does this make the Bengals team bad? Not by any means. It just means they unfortunately lost a hard fought game.

Regarding Marvin's rebirth, like I said up top, a lot of my points have nothing to do with the number of wins. They could be 2-7, and I would still feel the same because what you are seeing is the foundation of a team being put together and Marvin (and/or Katie) making progress in the front office. The last time this team had any sense of a "foundation" was the 2004 season that was the prep run for 2005. Before that you are going all the way back to the 1980's. With the key injuries this weekend, I now think they can do no better than 8-8, and they may be lucky to get that.

I don't know if I'd call this a "foundation" if they end up with a record of 8-8. You have to accomplish something first. 2-7 definitely does not merit the label "foundation".

Who's the foundation? Dalton & Green, Whitworth, Andre Smith, and Gresham on offense. Hall, Maualuga and Dunlap and maybe Peko and MJ on defense. Andre Smith is now signed only through 2012 because they opted out of the last two years of his deal. Hall is now very seriously hurt.

Here are the 2012 free agents who start: Reggie Nelson, Bobbie Williams, Cedric Benson, Jerome Simpson, Manny Lawson, Adam Jones, Mike Nugent, Chris Pressley, Nate Livings. Not to mention other free agents Rucker, Fanene, Caldwell and Pat Sims I believe. That's 13 fairly important guys to this team. How many you think they keep? How many mistakes you think they make from that group? You darn well know they'll plead poverty and say they cannot afford to keep all their guys.

And: Is Hall ever going to be the same? Achilles injuries for cornerbacks don't always end well -- only 2/3 of NFL players with torn achilles ever come back. Most never play as well (see http://www.lowerextremityreview.com/article/return-to-football-after-achilles-tendon-rupture)

The loss of JJo just a few months ago suggests to me that in spite of your hoped for "changes" with Marvin managing a "foundation", this team still doesn't know how to manage the roster well. Far too often a guy will be a very good player, like Justin Smith or Steinbach, and they'll let that guy go and then have to blow a high draft pick on a replacement. The situation at cornerback is particularly messy: Hall hurt, Clements will be a free agent in 2013, Adam Jones is a free agent after this year, Jennings is a free agent after this year, so you could be left with Clements and Ghee next year. It practically guarantees the first round pick has to be a cornerback. And the thing is they could have avoided that by signing JJo.

@guttersnake: Did you see that wide open bomb the Rapist just missed hitting to Wallace? Did you see all the 3rd and longs they surrendered? Since when did 24 points allowed qualify as a super day? They got a great pass rush most of the day... but the secondary was repeatedly toasted... and multiple times let them down on plays where they could have gotten off the field.

Game boiled down to the last two offensive possessions. I blame Gruden for the first TO, and Dalton for the second. With great field position and plenty of time ont he clock down seven, Gruden chose to pass on first down instead of running the ball, which would have been far more prudent, and had been successful earlier. The second pick seems to lend itself to the conversation regarding using RB's out of the backfield. Dalton had Ced WIDE open in the flat, looked right at him, and then decided to force the ball to caldwell on that slot button hook they run every game like five times. Stupid decisions in both instances, I forgive both though based on the rookie status of the responsible actor. Dalton has largely avoided stupid decisions thus far, and it is no surprise that ole DIckie enticed him to do that with time waning and the game on the line. I hope these gentelmen are prepared to go hard again this Sunday, facing another AFC north beast coming off a disappointing loss (to say the least).

@Curse - minor thing, but Dalton's second INT was intended for Jerome Simpson, who didn't even make an attempt to go after the ball.

Also, I posted an extremely long response to #DoNotOccupy and now it's gone - what's up with that?

Simpson, my bad, assumed personnel based on what I thought the route was. Eager to see what a healthy and hopefully ready Brandon Ghee brings to the CB table. I would advocate for not using Jones as a return man for the rest of the year barring injury, they're gonna need him to be healthy and productive down the stretch if they wanna make a run at playing in January and beyond... Ha ha, that feels wierd to write, but good. I hold no unrealisitc expectations, but I also see a team that can continue to build on what they've created int he first ten weeks.

Former Bengal Morgan Trent just got cut by the Colts. Hopefully the Bengals pick him back up after cutting him a couple of weeks ago to make room for Ced after his suspension was up. He's not as gifted as Hall, but he's been in the system for three years and should be less of a liability than one of the practice squad guys or a less-than-100% Ghee or A. Jones.

The thing that people fail to mention, to include the media and the SHEEP, is now their opponents have tape on Gruden's offensive scheme and Dalton. They cannot surprise anyone anymore. @Jockopablo, you are dead on my man! WHO DUH!

very perfect ,thanks a lot .Certainly which includes to your factors yet We differ having various other things, to sum up it’s a great document !

so, WDR just tweets that they think Andre Smith is not a bust.

Kind of makes all those posts about him being a bust a joke now right?

Tiger, you still are miserable. Anyone not excited for the Bengals this season is not a fan, plain and simple. No argument about sheep, owners or anything changes the fact that this season the Bengals are proving everyone wrong. That includes Mike Brown.

Does it make up for anything in the past? Nope, but if you had your way Benson, Smith and probably 10 other players would not be Bengals. Carson would have been traded for a 4th round pick and you would still be in the AFC North basement.

Please, share some more wisdom.

Andre Smith is playing better now but there's no way he is getting out of the bust label because when you pick a guy that high up, at that position, they are expected to dominate right away. The Bengals have now misplayed their hand, not wanting to gamble on him, so they only have him signed through next year. If he walks in 2013, you'd have gotten two good years at most from a top ten pick. That's a bust.

WhoDeyFans, yea I guess that soft schedule never clicked in your mind that is the reason they are winning? but don't that let you get in the way of thinking I am miserable! Whatever that means! The season is not even over and they are all ready proving people wrong? They could lose 8 in a row and then what would you say? I say they will be 9 and 7 or 8 and 8 by the end of the season and I am sure you as a SHEEP will praise the all mighty MFB and buy your season tickets for next year because they will even be better. LOL Been there and done that 20 years over! Get a clue!

i meant to say, but don't let that get in your way of thinking that I am miserable! I am realist, I know what I see. The O is crumbling before our eyes. The D is getting injury after injury with no depth to speak of. but I am just miserable. LOL Yea, not beating the Steelers again in their own stadium should show you something? but I know it does not because of your comments. Benson BLOWS btw! He is useless! Of course you trade Carson, but MFB had those picks fall in his lap and had a lap dog on the other end to get it done. Um, his previous coach helped him get those picks and an injury by a QB helped him out with the trading deadline about to pass. If that injury did not happen then what do you think would've happened with the Carson debacle? LOL I know, MFB would've still gotten those #1 and #2 draft picks from someone in the off season. Not a chance! Luck was on his side in the same manner when Carson fell in his lap for being a horrible losing team!

Tiger,

Yes, you are right that it was pure luck that the Carson deal fell into their laps, but you are missing the big picture. It is not a coincidence that the deal went through even though it was a weaker offer than what the Redskins offered in 2008 for Chad. The fact that Marvin wanted to trade Chad, but Brown overruled/ dismissed him and never allowed it to go through says a lot about the Carson trade.

Most likely Mike had nothing to do, nor did he approve, the Carson trade. Most likely Marvin and/or Katie pulled it off. I know that Marvin had a hand in it since he talks to Hue on a regular basis, but for it to get signed off shows that Mike is stepping back from his dictatorship role that he has held since 2007.

Your other point that they are only winning b/c of their weak schedule is mute. If the team truly sucked as you say, they would have lost most of those games. Keep in mind they are doing this with a rookie QB, WR, and offensive coordinator. Other teams that started the season with rookie QB's have a total of 5 wins combined. Again you are missing that weak schedule is showing their true ranking. They are definitely not in the top 10, and they are not in the bottom 10 where we are used to seeing them. This team still has holes to fill, but as a team they are developing and should continue to improve if they continue to make the proper moves as they have done the past couple of years in the draft.

Unfortunately, injuries have recently taken their toll on the defense, and now AJ Green. Because of this they will be lucky to win two more games the rest of the season. If they finish 8-8, it doesn't mean that they suck. In fact it says otherwise since you were predicting them to go 0-16.

Regarding Smith, you are correct that he is a bust if he moves on in 2013. He they resign him and he starts at RT the next ten years, he isn't. It can still go both ways at this point. If he continues to improve and comes into camp next year in shape, then they should resign him. If he doesn't they should let him walk and try again.

I asked if I could make it worse by swimming. He said, "probably not, but we don't really know. If you do make it worse, we think it could be easily fixed." Hmmm. I'll hold off on swimming for the next few weeks and then give it another shot. I'm also having trouble holding my upper body weight on the bike; hopefully PT can help with that as well.

so if the Ravens win in a blowout, what are people going to see about the formerly 6-2 AFC leading Bengals? (duh!)

Have to disagree with posters that say Ced is garbage. Ced is a guy that gets better as the game wears on, a lot like Rudi did in his stint here. I personally don't think he gets the ball enough. Totallly ok with Bennie getting two or three series a game to keep the guy fresh, but Gruden is under utilizing a guy that can go all day. On that note, Dalton's 1st pick last week should not have even been a passing play (1st down, great field position, plenty of time left, and Ced had started to pick up larger chunks), and beyond that, just wqhen the guy was starting to get rolling, Gruden got cute and put the pressure on his rookie QB. Ced needs to touch the ball 20 plus today, if he had last week, the outcome would liekly be different (yes, I'm speculating). 0 TO's and 20 touches for Ced and this is a winnable game. GUess Balt's ST is in disarray as well? Perhaps Tate can show again why he was signed, that would aid the cause as well.

If all you're going to do is bitch about today's loss and point to it as proof that the Bengals haven't improved at all, then just stop calling yourself a fan of this team. That's a tie ballgame if the refs correctly call the horse collar and set the Bengals up on the 1-yard line instead of calling the intentional grounding. Also, the rookie quarterback who can't throw deep had as many deep completions today as Palmer had all year last year (probably a slight exaggeration, but not by much).

Yep Wyatt the Bengals now lead the league in moral victories. Who-dey think they gonna out moral-victory dem Bengals!

Why is it so hard for you to comprehend that last year's team (hell, even the 2009 playoff team) would've just rolled over and died had they fallen behind the Ravens 31-14? This team instead came back and was within a horse collar call of tying the game. If you can't see that as a MAJOR improvement over teams of years past, you're blinded by your hatred of Mike Brown and refuse to see any positive changes. Would I prefer a win? Absolutely, but without their top defensive back and top wide receiver, this team did incredibly well, and you have to wonder if AJ Green's injury isn't going to be for the best, as when he returns, Dalton might not target him so much (see: Palmer and TO analysis from after last season), which makes this a much harder offense to defend.

@Wyatt: The 2009 team won some big division games with comebacks and 4th down conversions.

But yeah this team sucks less than previous years. They've graduated from suck to suck less.
Break out the champagne!

Moral victories suck and I want the team to split against Shitsburgh and Bodymore. But I'm hoping they build off this through to next season. I would be hard pressed to call this team Super Bowl quality, but they can put themselves in good position to make the playoffs over the next few weeks if they beat the Steelers and Texans. Keep in mind they're getting the Matt Leinart version of the Texans, so that makes the game significantly easier for them since they should be capable of limiting their rushing attack.

Once again, improving this team comes down to Mike Brown getting the fuck away from personnel decisions and the team spending their draft picks building up the lines. I don't even think an elite corner is completely necessary in the NFL now if you have a defense that only has to rush 4 or 5.

@#TrollNotOccupy: They were behind in the 4th quarter in 2 of their six division games in 2009 and never by more than 11 points. There's certainly a difference between that and being down 31-14. Again, you're being obtuse for the simple fact that you want to be negative.

@Wyatt: and again, they WON all six of those games. I don't enjoy watching losses. That's what this site is about. Again, you're being obtuse about what this site is about.

@#TrollNotOccupy: And that division sweep translated well into a deep playoff run, didn't it? I'd rather watch this team with its growing pains than that team, which we all knew was going to fail. Even with that loss, Cincinnati still has control of the sixth playoff seed, and they've exceeded the expectations of everyone but the most diehard of sheep Bengals homers. This site isn't about losses, it's about realizing actual growth and change in how the team is run, and, thus far this season, that certainly appears to be the case. So, no, you are the one being obtuse about what this site is about.

Ya might not want to say all that much of 'good' things about Marvin just so fast. Instead, just keep it in mind when you pillory him at the end of the year or so.

Talk about hopping on the bandwagon...

Here is my fear.
I believe that Marvin was brought in and ballyhooed by ownership as someone who would change the losing ways of the franchise. Then (and this is pure speculation) once he realized some success, Mikey decided that HE wanted some of the credit for a successful team. After all, if he turned over all personnel and other management decisions to a newcomer, and that newbie succeded where Mikey had failed so miserably for so many long years, well then the Mikey Haters would be justified in their opinions. Right?
So Mike wants to get his fingers back in the pie in case the successful team circa 2005 actually produces a conference championship or (be still my heart...) a Superbowl.
This strategy is met with a swift decline of the team as Mikey Boy roots around in more and more areas of decision making.
Now, after several years of mediocre play and a return to losing, Marvin wants out. But Mike implores him to return, saying that he'll let Marvin have more control.
Some moderately successful drafts are made, coaching changes are made, and this is more Marvin's team than ever.
This new team begins to see some success. Mike looks on from his ivory tower and begins to think, "wouldn't it be nice if I could put MY stamp on a successful team for once? Maybe papa would be proud."

:-S

Christ when will the next post come?

@Wyatt: it was an optical illusion based on a cake schedule. The teams the Bengals beat have a about a 33% winning percentage. They're 0-5 against teams headed to the playoffs based on today's tie-breakers. Strength of schedule, nothing more.

Nothing is being built in Cincinnati. After this year, they'll probably lose keys guys to free agents, giving Mikey Boy the perfect excuse why they'll suck next year (too many rookie starters, yada yada).

Someone posted Marvin's record vs playoff teams. It sucks.

Christ when will the next post come?

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    Bengals Futility - By The Numbers

    • 20 - Years since the Bengals have won a playoff game

      0 - Total number of playoff wins in Mike Brown's tenure as owner

      .359 - Bengals regular season winning percentage since Mike Brown took over as owner (115-206-1 in 20 seasons)

      29-34-1 - Record since 2005 playoff game vs Steelers

      6 - Seasons the Bengals have lost their first six games since 1991. No other team has more than two.

      0 - Teams North of Cincinnati without an indoor practice facility

      10 - Players arrested in a 14 month span from 2005-2006

      32 - Mike Brown's ranking, out of 32, of the "Best Owners in the NFL" by Michael Silver of Sports Illustrated in 2007

      458,000,000 - Amount, in dollars, that Hamilton County Taxpayers paid to build PBS

      2032 - Year that Hamilton County will have finally paid off its debt on the stadium deal

      3 - Total number of non-clerical employees employed in the Bengals scouting department, lowest in the league

      747,000,000 - Amount, in dollars, paid in free agency by the Bengals from 1994 - 2005, second worst of all 28 teams in existence for the duration, behind only Arizona

      118 – Ranking, out of 118 professional teams, of the “Worst Franchises” in professional sports, as ranked by ESPN the Magazine in 2003.

      97 – Ranking, out of 98 general managers in all four major sports with three or more years of experience, of Mike Brown’s performance as a GM, as ranked by Forbes in 2007.

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