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Who Dey Revolution Manifesto

  • Preamble

    IN THIS TIME of perpetual Cincinnati Bengals incompetence and futility, with zero playoff wins in the nineteen seasons since the WhoDeyRevolution Godfather, Paul Brown, passed away in 1991 and handed the team to his fortunate son, the Despot, Mike Brown;

    Introduction

    WE, the members of the Who Dey Revolution, in our fervent dedication to the Cincinnati Bengals and fanatical desire to transform our hometown team into perpetual Super Bowl contenders, call for a popular revolution of fans to demand comprehensive reform to the managerial decisions and approach of Cincinnati Bengals ownership, management, staff and players, and hereby call for the adoption of the following Who Dey Revolution Manifesto:

    Manifesto Demands

    THAT the Mike Brown, Katie Blackburn, Marvin Lewis, along with every other member of the Bengals management, staff and personnel, state publicly to all Bengals fans, “I will do everything in my power to help the Cincinnati Bengals win a Super Bowl;”

    THAT Mike Brown will hire a general manager, drastically expand the scouting department and relinquish all control of player personnel;

    THAT all training, rehabilitation and medical facilities are considered best-in-class compared to other NFL teams;

    THAT the management fill the team only with players who fit the system, both mentally and physically, and are not reluctant to makes changes to player personnel when needed, regardless of cost or loyalty concerns;

    THAT offensive and defensive line depth is considered the top priority for all player personnel decisions;

    THAT all decisions made by ownership, management, staff and players, both on and off the field, are judged only by this criterion: “Does this help the Cincinnati Bengals win a Super Bowl?”

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October 18, 2011

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Holy shit, look at Mike Brown getting over his obstinate self and making the right move! If we end up getting two firsts out of Palmer, he should be thrown in jail for theft. I would have been happy with a 2nd and a decent RB.

This definitely beats the Antonio Bryant signing.

It fell into Mike Brown's lap. This time he took it, unlike with the Akili Smith draft pick non-trade and the Ochocinco-to-Redskins non-trade.

Here's a question. We're now loaded with three, potentially four first round picks in the next two years. Do you use those to go after Andrew Luck? You could probably move up to #1 with two of those first rounders, Dalton, and one or two other later round picks. That's probably a fair price.

Alternatively, you keep Dalton, and use those picks on our needs (safety, guard, WR, and probably another OLB).

Dalton has been surprisingly good, but let's face it, he'll never be a Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers kind of guy, which Luck could be. I don't know - it's a big risk, but I would definitely consider it, especially if I could keep one or two of those other first rounders.

HOLY SHIT! Where did I wake up today? highway robbery performed by the brown family? And not of the fans!?!? WOOOOOOOOOW. LOVE IT, MARV appears to know how to draft based on the last four or five, have 2 1sts 2 3rds and 2 5ths now next year I think, sweet.

I can't help but think Hue Jackson has compromising photos of Mikey boy stashed somewhere - like him paying full price for something or actually leaving a decent tip...

Either that or the trade also includes all the Grand Slams Mikey boy can eat...

This is a huge surprise, and worthy of this site's praise. Potentially two first rounders for a damaged QB is a steal of a deal. It would be interesting to know how this was worked out behind the front office's closed doors, e.g. was MFB on board or was he pushed.

Fuck Luck. Dalton is going to be a legit QB in this league. They just need to focus on building a dominate OL for the kid so he can slow down his timing.

Next year's draft is now critical in this team making the next step to become legit contenders. With their first four picks they better fill the big holes remaining on this team: LG, Safety, DT (Run stuffing), & CB.

Of course on the other hand he is pissing & moaning again about the millions in improvements he is insisting the county perform on the stadium...

Dan,

you can not be serious. come on.

What has Dalton shown you (and no one else) that says he can not be as good as Tom Brady? You know, the 6th round draft pick who was below average in his first couple NFL games.

Sure, you can talk about the team surrounding him and all, but that same case will be made for any QB (including Luck)

The Bengals have a good young core, and you want to trade the chance to make the team better as a whole to get another unproven QB.

Is there any knowledge left on this site? This is an absolute joke. How can you honestly call out fans when that is what is brought to the table?

Stick to insults and calling people sheep. Any sort of football acumen is not expected on this site any more other than from SWB and Wyatt who still occasionally post some solid stuff.

I'm just happy we got rid of that bum palmer (both of them) he failed us miserably everyone put him on a pedastel despite his dramatic decrease in ability and stats starting when he got injured. I say good riddance to the palmer era!

WHO DEY!!!!

It's a unbelievable deal. Savvy almost, but lets be real, if Jason Campbell doesn't get hurt then Carson is turning green and fuzzy in Mike's fridge.

The legacy of the deal will be how well they use the two picks. Judging by the recent track record, it seems promising. Please build a scouting department before the offseason.

@WhoDeyFans,

Wow, sorry man. Not trying to ruffle your feathers. If you don't like the site, maybe find another one. Don't you have one?

What have I seen from Dalton that tells me he's not Tom Brady? How about that he can't throw a ball with any zip on it more than 15 yards down field? It wobbles and hangs in the air, and is usually 3-5 yards behind the receiver. If we didn't have a freak like Green going up for those he'd have a lot more than 5 picks by now.

Look, he's a smart guy, seems good in the huddle, accurate on short range routs (which I assume is why Gruden calls so many) and will be a starter in the NFL for a while. But look at the last few SB wining QB's: Rodgers, Brees, P. Manning, Roethlisberger, E. Manning, Brady... He doesn't have half the arm they do. The last less-than-great QB's to do it were Dilfer and Brad Smith, and they did it before the rules were changed (QB's can't be touched, and receivers can now go over the middle without risk of decapitation) to make this a pass-oriented league. You have to have an elite QB to win. Dalton is good, but he's not elite.

And no one is saying we need to mortgage the future. We have, potentially, four 1st round picks in the next two years. Even if you give away Dalton and three first rounders, you'd still have a first rounder and the most sure-thing quarterback prospect since Peyton Manning. Use that first rounder on a guard and you still have the best, and youngest line in the division. Knowing MB, he'll trade at least one, probably two of those anyway to consolidate and avoid paying big $ to so many first rounders.

Look, it's a risk, and I'm not even sure I would do it. But it's definitely not a joke; just trying to have a conversation. But thanks for lobbing insults and contributing nothing in the way of analysis. If you'd like to calm down and offer something constructive, I'm listening.

WhoDeyFans:

Add blesterov to your list, as his football knowledge generally blows mine out of the water.

As stunned as I am by this entire turn of events, I can only pray that the Bengals can do some serious damage in this year's draft. Now, I wouldn't be opposed to taking Trent Richardson in the first round if he's there, Bengals track record with first round running backs be damned! However, if there is a better lineman (on either side of the ball) available, then those picks need to go to those guys. Hopefully Mikey Boy has learned his lesson about drafting a franchise quarterback and then not building a line and letting him get killed.

*remembers Evan Mathis is an Eagle and Nate Livings still sees significant playing time*

Well, there's still hope, isn't there? I genuinely like Paul Alexander, but if he's the reason Livings is still starting/on the team, then he needs to be reunited with Bratkowski. Also, does anyone else grow increasingly aggravated with Peter King's weekly praise of Mike Zimmer? I only read PK because it gets me ready for Big Daddy Drew's takedowns of his horrible, horrible columns on KissingSuzyKolber, but he's been all over Zim's nuts lately, and that's going to lead to renewed interest in the best coach on the Bengals staff.

I say draft Trent Richardson and then build the line. That would be a sick young team who could be dominant for more than a flashy year or two like the past era. I find myself surprised at saying this, but I am genuinely excited about next year's draft. Let's hope they don't shit the bed.

My comprehensive list of things that can make Bengals management look savvy: 1) Oakland Raiders

Possibly the best deal Mikey has made to date.

Trading up for Luck makes little sense, even if we do end up with the first overall pick next year, I'd try my hardest to find a good deal trading down. Dalton easily has the potential to be a top 10 quarterback in this league; most of his problems--including the mechanical issues that have been mentioned--are indicative of a quarterback adjusting to the speed of the NFL and a new system and not that of a lack of talent or a poorly developed skill set.

The time of Peyton Manning and Tom Brady consistently dominating the league is coming to a close. Even so, you don't need a transcendent passer or offensive wizard to win in today's NFL, although it makes it easier. Neither Ben Roethlisberger or Eli Manning (who can both attribute a great deal of their success to their size helping them extend the play) are all time greats like Peyton and Brady, and they both have rings and make the playoffs consistently. More important is a disciplined team with good chemistry, a good core of veteran leaders, and a killer instinct. The Bengals are starting to nail those first two bits down and are working on building those third and fourth pieces. Even though I'm apprehensive by nature of being a Bengals fan, I think they're headed in the right direction. Dalton might not be the guy in the end, but drafting Luck next year won't do us as much good as taking a good interior lineman or defensive back.

No one has talked about the money that this trade free's up. I wonder what MB is going to do with it? Trade for some small improvements or pocket it? Given today, I will be nice to him and say he will make small improvements OR BUILD AN INDOOR PRACTICE FACILITY!

I don't see where either team has announced the trade yet. Sapp? Rogers? Hope not.

Got a lot of Oakland fans out here talking about Carsons last 3 seasons. We all know them to be the 3 seasons that Bratkowski should have been canned. Good for Carson. He got what he wanted, I'm just wondering if he'll want what he got.

Please refrain from using the words Dalton and Brady in the same post. I think Dalton has some Boomer in him. Norman's arm strength and downfield zip wasn't the greatest, but he lead and executed. Dalton seems to have that.

Trent Richardson on this offense could be scary. Dear god with 4 possible first round picks can they take a safety? We know one of them will be a corner.
Win - win the way I see it.

Funny story, since the company I work for is based out of Niagara Falls, NY, and I work with a bunch of Bills fans. Remember that guy with the Irish-sounding name who used to back Palmer up here in Cincy? Not O'Sullivan, the other one - Fitzsimmons or Fitzcarroll or something like that? I hear he's doing pretty well with his current team, and that they're 4-2 with a guy who was once thought to be a career back-up as their starter. I think he might've even been drafted lower than Tom Brady!

@Dan R. - I think the Luck scenario is probably a legitimate question to ask about, even if it would end up being a bad idea for the franchise; what I don't agree with is you using Brees as an example of why Dalton won't be successful in the NFL, since Brees is the one player that Dalton was compared endlessly to in draft season. As Samuel Spear rightly pointed out, it's far too early to close the book on Dalton being a dominant quarterback in the NFL, as he had almost no offseason to work with his new coaches and teammates and is still adjusting to the speed and complexity of the pro game. Also, I don't know about you, but I'd take a guy with mid-level stats and a great record over a guy with good to great stats and a horrible record, which is essentially what Carson's Bengals career will see him remembered as (and what sCam Newton's career is starting as).

holey moley

Man the Raiders got sooooo trade raped! This is just to good to be true. A guaranteed 1st in 2012 and 2nd in 2013. If the Raiders win a playoff game, the 2013 pick becomes a 1st round. I would not be surprised if the NFL finds a way to screw this up like they did the Shawn Rogers trade a couple years back.

Regarding Luck: Anderson never had great arm strength nor did Brees coming out of college. If you put the guy in the right system, his weaknesses can be compensated. Plus there is nothing that a little cream and experience in an offensive system can't fix. This team is so close to taking that next step, that wasting all of these picks for a QB that could be a total bust is a complete waste of time and screams of Mike Brown logic. If Kolb or McNabb were our QB right now, I would be all for it.

Dalton is very young, went through an expedited off-season (basically 6 weeks to learn Gruden's system), and is producing better than imagined. I expected this team to get at least 6 wins, and they are already 2/3rds the way there with 10 games still to go. The kid deserves his chance to prove what he can do with an upgraded OL, a year of experience under his belt in Gruden's system, and additional off-season training (mini-camp, etc.). If he can lead this patch work of an offense now. I can't imagine his upside next year.


The problem I see with the trade Dalton + picks for Luck scenario is that whoever you'd be trading with would need a QB. Why else would they want Dalton? If you needed a QB and had an early draft pick, would you really trade away the rights to Luck so you could get Dalton + other picks?

As far as this trade is concerned, I can't Fing believe it. I bet Katie and Marv had to do some major Chevy Lumina washing to make this happen!


So on the Luck thing, I'd probably play it safe and keep the picks, but I'd like to see how the rest of our's and Andy's seasons go. It's a huge risk, but if Luck is as good as advertised, giving up Dalton, two 1st rounders, and some later picks would probably be worth it. This assumes whoever is sitting on 1 would take it. Of course, as today shows, anyone will do anything if the price is right.

On Brees, Dalton wasn't so much compared to him as Brees was held up as his ceiling. On Roethlisberger and Eli, yes their size is a big part of their game, but regardless, they're both first-tier QB's; not automatic HOF guys like Manning and Brady, but elite. And I do think that given how pass happy the NFL is and will be under the new rules, an elite quarterback will be a prerequisite to winning a super bowl. I'll correct myself if the Ravens win one with Flacco, but I don't see that happening.

The nice thing is you can't really go wrong either way. As I said, Dalton will be good (I'd guess probably 50th or 60th percentile among league starters), which is plenty good enough to win with when you can stockpile first rounders like we'll be able to. I just don't know if he'll be good enough to win it all. He might, but no one really knows yet. We've only seen six games.

In the end, it'll depend on how we do the rest of the way this year, and particularly how well Dalton plays. If we go .500 and Dalton plays half as well against Balt/Pitt as he did last week, you can't take the risk. But if we tank now that we're not playing just cupcakes, I think opinions will change, and we'll be the only team in a position to move up without mortgaging the future.

And whatever happens, I do think one or two of those picks will be consolidated into a higher pick (Richardson? Maybe Alshon Jeffrey if Simpson is in the clink?). Mike won't want to pay that many high picks. Most teams probably wouldn't.

Thanks for the strong counterpoints - good thread. Incidentally, there was a good discussion in MNQ with Ernie Accorsi (GM who drafted/traded John Elway and Eli Manning) about what exactly Luck is worth: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/10/16/Week6/1.html

For the curious: it's reported that the "condition" that turns the second draft pick from a 2nd rounder into a 1st rounder is the Raiders winning a playoff game this year.

It's actually an appearance in the AFC Championship Game either this season or next.

it's reported that the "condition" that turns the second draft pick from a 2nd rounder

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    Bengals Futility - By The Numbers

    • 20 - Years since the Bengals have won a playoff game

      0 - Total number of playoff wins in Mike Brown's tenure as owner

      .359 - Bengals regular season winning percentage since Mike Brown took over as owner (115-206-1 in 20 seasons)

      29-34-1 - Record since 2005 playoff game vs Steelers

      6 - Seasons the Bengals have lost their first six games since 1991. No other team has more than two.

      0 - Teams North of Cincinnati without an indoor practice facility

      10 - Players arrested in a 14 month span from 2005-2006

      32 - Mike Brown's ranking, out of 32, of the "Best Owners in the NFL" by Michael Silver of Sports Illustrated in 2007

      458,000,000 - Amount, in dollars, that Hamilton County Taxpayers paid to build PBS

      2032 - Year that Hamilton County will have finally paid off its debt on the stadium deal

      3 - Total number of non-clerical employees employed in the Bengals scouting department, lowest in the league

      747,000,000 - Amount, in dollars, paid in free agency by the Bengals from 1994 - 2005, second worst of all 28 teams in existence for the duration, behind only Arizona

      118 – Ranking, out of 118 professional teams, of the “Worst Franchises” in professional sports, as ranked by ESPN the Magazine in 2003.

      97 – Ranking, out of 98 general managers in all four major sports with three or more years of experience, of Mike Brown’s performance as a GM, as ranked by Forbes in 2007.

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