Predictably, the Bengals responded to the recent WSJ article highlighting the burden their stadium deal via their whiny little Who Dey Perspective blog. Their major point boils down to "the WSJ used sloppy math and conflated the costs of two stadiums instead of isolating just PBS". Perhaps they're right, but that's beside this point on the whole issue. Here is what matters:
- The Bengals are not at fault for asking for as much as they could when they tried to get a stadium deal. First and foremost, this is the fault of the county and its citizens for not playing hardball when we had the chance.
- ANYONE who looks at stadium deals in a serious manner comes to the conclusion that the PBS deal was among, if not the most, lopsided deal for all publicly funded stadiums. This book dedicates a whole chapter to it. They focus on the Reds stadium too. They still come to same conclusion. I talked to them about it. They said: "The Bengals deal remains the single most lopsided stadium deal since 1993." No amount of whiny Who Dey Perspective posts changes that fact.
- Though you cannot fault the Bengals for simply grabbing all they could, it is also implies they viewed the county, its citizens and taxpayers as suckers to be looted for maximum personal gain.
- Given that Bob Bedinghaus went to work for the Bengals, it actually throws into question the whole premise that the negotiations were fairly conducted in the first place. It's among the grossest cases of revolving door public to private sector shenanigans I can think of in my lifetime. Even if it had no impact on negotiations, it's embarrassing behavior by both Bedinghaus and the Bengals, and speaks to their sense of ethics and their respect for fans and the community.
- The owners of the Bengals are not here to work in partnership with their fans and local community...they are here to exploit it for personal gain.
- Go read what Doc said in his blog but it comes down to this: the Bengals could serve a wonderful public function by helping to give our community an identity and common cause to rally around, instead they simply take our largesse and shit on us.
So Bengals, seriously, shut the fuck up trying to defend your stadium deal. You got a good deal, whether it was negotiated in good faith or not. It's tone deaf and misses the point that you continue to accept fan and taxpayer money without even bothering to a)seem grateful or b)make the changes needed to win.
WhoDeyFans is a single person who runs a website with that name. He's also more lucid than you in his arguments and, as best I can recall, has never resorted to childish name calling to make his points. While we've had our disagreements in the past, and there is generally very little we see eye-to-eye on, I strive to keep my discussions with him civil, because making comments like yours just reflects poorly on me (or, in this case, you) and the WDR community as a whole.
Posted by: Wyatt | July 15, 2011 at 07:24 AM
I think you hit the nail on the head with this whole issue "they simply take our largesse and shit on us"
If the Bengals were winning and contending for Super Bowls every year no one would even care how lopsided the deal is, it would be money well spent.
As it is, it isn't.
Posted by: 5chw4r7z | July 15, 2011 at 09:47 AM
It never ceases to amaze me that folks so evilly smart as to bilk a county for the stadium deal under the guises we all know they did, are not smart enough to know that they could make $ hand over fist off this city with absolutley no backlash if they put a winning product on the field, or at least showed some significant good faith efforts to do so. It also never ceases to amaze me that I cannot get to the point where I don't care, I always come back to feeling like a jilted lover.... I hate Mike Brown
Posted by: CurseofBoJackson | July 15, 2011 at 09:58 AM
@Wyatt - I took down that comment. We don't need that kind of hate around here. We don't police comments mostly cause we don't have time but that is unacceptable. I often disagree with WhoDeyFans as well but he's reasonable and thoughtful.
@Curse - the reason they don't make more money by producing a winning team is because their goal isn't driven by the bottomline primarily. The goal, forever and always, is primarily to run the team THEIR WAY. That means to run the team as a closely held, family owned and operated small business, as they have always done it since Paul Brown. The stadium deal and CBA allow them to do this because the results on the field don't affect their profitability. With guaranteed profitability they never have to change and can always run the team THEIR WAY.
It's why fans have to completely financially abandon the team to force change. This is a hard thing for fans to do.
Posted by: Sleeping With Bieniemy | July 15, 2011 at 10:16 AM
oh no, I am sorry I missed the comment, it sounds like a good one.
And yes, we often disagree (sometimes it is forced disagreements to generate debate) but I see the issue more with the Hamilton County leaders rather than with Mike Brown or any other business. The Bengals stadium deal is lopsided, but it's just another lopsided deal that the city agrees to that digs a deeper hole in the budget.
You know, the points made about spending money that was supposed to go towards the stadium is true. If you budget for something but spend that money on others, that is not responsible.
Freedom Center, Street Cars, subway tunnels for a city that takes about 7 minutes to walk across. Terrible.
Posted by: WhoDeyFans | July 15, 2011 at 11:17 AM
Suppose I have to concede that on some level, but it is apparent from GM bonuses and family salaries/appts that they DO like money, and if you like money, typically you like MORE money. I guess what you're saying is that they like ONLY their family and friends to have money, and if they try and put a winning product on the field, they would apparently have to share the clan's moolah. Greedy aristocrats operating the team like a small fascist country eh? Well, doesn't change my feelings towards them, or that they still exist, one day I'll wise up. So in response to your last statement, would you then (putting blinders on about the rest of the possible effects) support a system that lends itself more to comtetive disparity a la baseball? As this would allow for more of a disgruntled fan impact? Obviously aint gonna happen but out of curiosity.
Posted by: CurseofBoJackson | July 15, 2011 at 11:51 AM
@Curse - they love money to be sure. But they love running the franchise as Daddy and Granddaddy always said they should above all else. It's the only logical conclusion, allow me to demonstrate:
Premise 1: the Brown Family is smart about money (though not in football)
Premise 2: it is obvious the Bengals leave money on the table by not maximizing their focus on winning and rallying their potentially large regional fanbase
Conclusion: they must have some other motivation than just money given all the profitability they forgoe
My conclusion is that they desperately want to win as a family run team above all else. You could also argue that focusing on maximizing their profitability by winning requires them to take on more risk (increasing infrastructure costs, spending closer to the cap). And perhaps they are extremely risk averse. I would very much buy this too. It's probably a little both.
Posted by: Sleeping With Bieniemy | July 15, 2011 at 12:10 PM
@SWB, I think another point to support that it the name of the freaking stadium. Millions left out there so they can keep pops name on the building...
Posted by: WhoDeyFans | July 15, 2011 at 01:36 PM
@Wyatt - thanks for the words. Just be glad I stayed out of the whole OSU and Penn State debate. Yeah, I read the comments and bit my tongue. At no surprise I am sure, I am a huge Buckeye fan.
Also, it is hard to argue while your team is being smacked down for violations.
Posted by: WhoDeyFans | July 15, 2011 at 01:39 PM
Bengals ranked worst sports franchise by a major media source.
Bengals dispute.
Bengals stadium deal reported upon factually by a major media source.
Bengals dispute.
Can Daugherty do a sports illustrated piece about the teams record under Mike Browns control? You know where mike lost 200 games faster than anyone. And won 100 games slower than anyone.
I'd like to hear them dispute that.
There was the MMQB piece on SI last Monday written by the Texans GM. If you read it it'll be clear what a GM does and very clear that the Bengals do not have a legitimate GM.
What's the bet on MFB voting against the CBA. I think it's 100% against.
Posted by: JM | July 15, 2011 at 01:55 PM
@JM,
Mike is on the committee and he is not present. What does that tell you? Either he already voted or they don't want him to
Posted by: WhoDeyFans | July 15, 2011 at 03:30 PM
It takes compromise.
It will force him to spend more on players.
That has NO written all over it.
However I'll bet he's happy as a Mike Brown on cheese that he can pay high draft picks less. That will lessen the heat on the busted high round picks. I'll be interested to see the slotting structure on rookie caps. How do you hold a guy out when his salary is capped? I'm pretty sure we'll find out.
Posted by: JM | July 16, 2011 at 03:17 PM
MFB knows how to get over in any CBA and he does it again....He does not have to spend as much as the other teams because he is crying revenue is lower than other teams. Enjoy losing all of our Free Agents and getting more worthless bum Free Agents to come to this team.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6773711/talks-recessed-owners-give-free-agency?campaign=rss&source=NFLHeadlines
Posted by: TigerJ@w | July 17, 2011 at 12:06 PM
Can we get a who dey perspective on player arrests? This off season is a bad news avalanche at this point.
Posted by: JM | July 17, 2011 at 02:45 PM
Holy crap, even by propaganda standards this is terrible. From the Who Dey Perspective piece:
"If municipal spending had remained limited to sports facilities (as originally planned), municipal finances would have fit within the identified tax revenues.. Instead, local officials spent money on extra projects—like a new highway project, an urban redevelopment project, and enhanced funding for public schools—and this “mission creep” has caused real economic challenges, which the Journal wrote about Tuesday...Unfortunately, Tuesday’s Journal article lost its way when it tried to ascribe blame for municipal finances on the stadium deals, rather than on the real cause: municipal spending on unapproved new projects that lacked funding sources."
Wow, that takes serious balls to write. Shorter version, "If county officials would just focus on giving us money hand over fist, they'd be fine. It's all that "mission creep" wasting money on "unapproved projects" like improving infrastructure and educating children that's the real problem."
They really do not give a flying fuck about Hamilton County.
Posted by: Dan R. | July 18, 2011 at 12:30 PM
Best offseason ever!
Posted by: blesterov | July 18, 2011 at 02:31 PM
WhoDeyFans,
If it makes you feel better, JoePA had to self-report already this spring because he stopped to watch his players in the weight room without even realizing what he did was against the rules. When he mentioned to his son Jay that the players looked sharp, Jay responded that he had committed a violation and they had to self-report it.
Posted by: Wyatt | July 18, 2011 at 02:44 PM
Love your blog.
First Time posting, Old School, Roman Gabriel, Ex-Ram Fan from SoCal.
(Quit the Rams, ahead of their STL departure, after the Henry Ellard/Georgia Front-N-RearMe contract negotiation BS)
For the last 2 yrs that I've followed, your Bengal Passion is loud and clear! Great work!
I love how you're constantly holding MB accountable! (LA needs someone like you for the Dodgers, they suck)
Because of Who Dey Revolution, I'll become a Bengal fan the day MB sells the team!
Now that I think about it...I guess I've become one already. Otherwise I wouldn't be rooting for Ownership change, and posting from LA.
Posted by: JayKen Knotstirred | July 21, 2011 at 03:18 AM
Welcome JayKen.
This blog degenerates into a festering sh*thole of self-pity and/or misplaced anger/aggression from time to time, but, for the most part, it's the best place on the 'net for intelligent (read: non-homerish) Bengals discussion.
Posted by: Wyatt | July 21, 2011 at 09:13 AM
Yes, welcome JayKen. I am less familiar with the shittiness of the historical Rams owners but did get the general impression they tested quite high on the shitty scale.
@Wyatt - thank you, I appreciate the compliment.
Posted by: Sleeping With Bieniemy | July 21, 2011 at 12:41 PM
SwB:
To clarify, the "festering sh*thole of self-pity and/or misplaced anger/agression" was referring to the commenters and not the authors. The rest, though, was directed at you and the rest of the WDR crew.
Posted by: Wyatt | July 21, 2011 at 02:14 PM
Haha - I got you. But seriously, I use the blog to vent and rant like a dipshit all the time.
Posted by: Sleeping With Bieniemy | July 21, 2011 at 02:27 PM
Yeah, but your venting and ranting is actually humorous and/or topical, whereas most of the commenters (myself included) simply aren't.
Posted by: Wyatt | July 21, 2011 at 05:29 PM
Mike Brown voted for a deal that paints the players as greedy worthless bastards.
Thats the entire joke.
No really, that's it.
Posted by: JM | July 21, 2011 at 09:17 PM
Hurry up already. I'm so anxious for the Marvin-Dalton-Green era to begin.
Posted by: JM | July 21, 2011 at 09:22 PM
Hey, I jumped in BECAUSE of you guys. I love to see, hear and share my passion for football with fans like you guys. Not every team has fans this passionate, (Shout out to Jacksonville!) much less this mobilized.
The Manifesto says it all. WDR was started as a place to vent frustration, and has held MB's feet to the fire for as long as you've been been posting. I admire that dedication as well as the groundswell of support from the everyday fans who participate in the boycotts, billboards etc.
Looks like this season may actually be on, so for the first time I'll be publicly representing from the Left Coast! Live or Die, I'm all In!
Posted by: JayKen Knotstirred | July 22, 2011 at 12:59 AM
It is known that cash makes us free. But what to do if someone has no cash? The one way is to try to get the loan and just bank loan.
Posted by: Weeks35Georgette | August 28, 2011 at 07:53 AM