"You stupid son of a bitch..."
Andy Dalton is an interesting talent. He is not that tall. He doesn't have that great of arm strength. But he has all of the intangibles of a winning quarterback: a leader with energy that his teammates feed off; instinctively feels the pass rush; good eyesight and ability to read the field - according to scouting reports he rarely threw into double coverage; good pump fake; throws well while scrambling; productive as a four year starter in college; and is a proven winner. These intagibles are something the fans probably haven't seen in stripes since Boomer.
The problem with Andy Dalton, which he probably does not understand yet, is that he was drafted by Mike Brown; a man with out a plan. Since the early 2000's, there has not been a serious commitment to investing in players that will allow an offense to dominate the line of scrimmage. Not only does this help provide a staunch running game, but it serves as the catalyst for a typical NFL QB to excel at the game. Unfortunately, it is the situation that Mike Brown has created from failing to address the team's real needs for at least the past four off seasons that led to Palmer's demise and will lead to Dalton's downfall as well.
The reality
In the NFL, a franchise QB typically takes a year or two to develop. Tom Brady took two - one on the bench and then became the starter after an injury to Bledsoe in his second season. Carson took two years – one on the bench behind Kitna and then one as a starter. Both Brady and Palmer benefited from having the opportunity to develop behind solid OL's that were built by a number of successful drafts prior to their arrival. For instance, consider the line Carson developed behind:
LT - Jones (1st round)
LG - Steinbach (2nd round)
C - Braham (3rd Round)
RG - Williams (2nd round)
RT - Anderson (1st round)
In his second season as the starter, 2005 was Palmer's break out season with a QB rating of 101.1 following a slow start the previous season with a QB rating of 77.3. As the line fell apart due to age, injuries, and free agency, Palmer's QB rating followed falling to its lowest at 69.0 in 2008. Slowly the Bengals reinvested in their OL with the loss of Jones and Anderson, and in 2009 the line showed some promise again. However, the present line is still a work in progress being patched together with irrational or mid round picks.
Now, compare the 2005 OL with what Dalton is going to have to learn behind on-the-fly:
LT - Whitworth (2nd round)
LG - ??? Possibly Livings (CFA)
C - Cook (CFA)
RG - Williams (2nd round but is now beyond his prime)
RT - Smith (1st round but has never finished a complete game)/ Collins (4th round)
The current OL has nothing but big question marks, except for two spots: C & LT. Our 1st round RT may or may not show up in shape, which is actually looking promising for once, but that doesn't mean he won't proceed to re-break his foot again from carrying too much weight on his frame. The RG is in his final year of his contract and is way beyond his prime. The Bengals do not even have a LG with a signed contract on the roster. Livings is a tendered restricted free agent and Mathis (former 3rd rounder) is unrestricted and according to this twitter exchange is not coming back. The rookie, Boling was drafted to replace Williams at RG in 2012, but may be forced into the starting position if they do not add a veteran bodies through free agency.
(On a side note I never got the Mathis not starting issue, the guy was an obvious upgrade to Livings, and it will be a shame when they bring Livings back and not Mathis. We here at WDR feel your pain Mathis, and wish you the best of luck.)
Once free agency begins within the next month, there are some good guards available: Carl Nicks (NO); Logan Mankins (NE); Davin Joseph (TB); and Daryn Colledge (GB). Unfortunately, Mike Brown has repeatedly proven time and again that he is not willing to spend money on an interior lineman, Steinbach being the most recent example. So we can almost guarantee that they will not go after one of the top guards in free agency. They most likely take their typical approach and look for the player with the best value - meaning they grab a former 3rd, 4th or 5th round guard from the scrap heap, shine him up and type up a Who Dey Perspective calling it a major move.
Addressing your needs
Prior to the Bengals drafting Dalton with the third pick of the second round, the Patroits and Seahawks had the opportunity to either select Dalton or trade down to allow someone to move ahead of the Bengals. As it turned out, no one moved up for Dalton even though everyone in the league knew he was coming off the board at the number three spot.
It is especially intriguing with the case of Seattle, a team that desperately needs a QB. According to Seattle's GM, they discussed taking him off the board one pick before the Bengals. Schneider explained the decision on a Seattle radio show.
"We debated with Andy Dalton, there's no question about it. But I think we all felt like we were at a point in our development where we couldn't pass on a starting tackle right now," he said. "Quite honestly, we'd like to have a guy, especially a rookie, be more of a developmental type and a guy more like Aaron Rodgers and sit for a year or two. So that was really the only point in the draft where there was a guy where we were like, 'There he is, that's a very viable option.'
"My personal opinion is that (Dalton) could go in and play right away. It's just been my experience that true development and ideal development is for a guy to come and sit for a year or two," he said. "I think by choosing Carpenter (OT) that we were helping our team immediately, whereas with Andy we would have wanted a veteran in there with him anyway."
So Seattle selected to invest in controlling the line of scrimmage even though their starting QB is Charlie Whitehurst. In essence, they followed the proven formula that a good offense needs a good OL, and they probably made the right choice.
Mike Brown continues to exert his influence in the draft championing the Art Model strategy - draft guys that put on a show - even though it has been proven time and again it does not succeed. Ozzie Newsome pulled a coup d'eta in his first draft as GM in 1996 with the infamous selection of 9-time Pro Bowler Jonathan Ogden over Model's highly desired pick, Nebraska's Lawrence Phillips. The end result set the tone for the franchise for more than a decade for the team. Since the coup, the franchise has experienced continued successes following Newsome's "ground up" strategy. Yet, here we are in 2011 and it still feels like Cincinnati is stuck in 1991.
If i've said it before i'll say it again. Amen. Way to hit the nail on the head for the umpteenth time.
Posted by: Kevin Jones | June 22, 2011 at 02:03 AM
Two things -
1) Mike Brown wanted Ryan Mallett. That we have Dalton shows a) that he can be overruled (not entirely manifesto item #2, but much closer)
2) Our LG position will be shored up by Clint Boling. From all reports, he's another Big Whit. Collins is sufficient at RT if Smith never gets his stuff together. Bobbie is still ranked #1 at his position from last year, and don't see a rapid decline (look at Willie Anderson).
Posted by: Who Chi Minh | June 22, 2011 at 04:52 AM
Thanks, that I had forgotten how terrible our O-Line has been, and your breakdown just depressed me for the day. I often wonder why I still let Mike Brown torture me like this.
Posted by: Danno | June 22, 2011 at 09:38 AM
The reports leaking from the owners meetings yesterday, that teams will have to spend nearly 100% of their cap space. Wow, that's got to piss Mikey off. They're going to force him to spend money.
Sounds like a good thing but I think it will lead to overpaying guys already on the team that could be upgraded through free agency. They still don't have anyone scouting active NFL players that I have heard of.
That should eliminate Joseph and Benson not getting paid.
Posted by: JM | June 22, 2011 at 12:23 PM
JM,
A new deal for Joseph was my first thought as well - let's hope it pans out.
Posted by: Wyatt | June 22, 2011 at 03:10 PM
The fact that MB doesn't understand the value of having a good o-line after all these years is exactly why it still feels like Dave Shula has never been fired
Posted by: Klinglered | June 22, 2011 at 04:38 PM
JM,
That is intriguing news, but I am willing to bet MFB will find a good attorney to feel out loopholes in the rule so he can retain his 40% contingency that he loves so much.
Since Joseph is restricted, they have the chance to match the offer in 7 days. If they don't match and he leaves town, they get the other team's 1st and 3rd rounds. The fact that the Bengal's placed such a high qualifying tender on him, I don't think he is leaving town this year. Unfortunately, that probably means - just from past history - that he gets a one year deal and then is gone at the end of next season. Hall will probably go through the same process.
Minh,
1st point: Brown has shown with Marvin's drafts in the past that he is willing to listen and be overruled at times. No question about that. Take a look at the drafts from 2003-2006, and they are fairly logical for their needs at the time even though there were several poor/ unfortunate selections. After the disappointing 2006 season, everyone was on Marvin, and you may remember it was at this time Mike really openly questioned Marvin's methods. It was the 2007 offseason where I believe you see a reemergence in MFB's WTF strategy, and only one person from that draft significantly contributed to the team (Hall). This leads me to believe Mike began exerting his influence on a regular basis over Marvin at this point. This is also the period where the Chris Henry saga played out that almost led Marvin to walk away from the team b/c he was fed up with the meddling. 2008-2010 were fairly good drafts aside for a few exceptions, but the point is they ignored their biggest need during that period: OL. As a result, they let Palmer get beat to hell repeatedly and completely ruined his career in the process.
2nd Point: Again betting that a 3rd round OG is going to pan out, is just that: a gamble. So at this point it is just speculation whether or not Boling will fill the hole or even start this year. Supposedly Alexander has said that Livings deserves to start at that spot - which I don't get. I will feel a lot better if Marvin actually steps up and gets a solid LG in free agency to allow Boling to develop behind Williams. As you said, Collins is sufficient, but to have a dominate OL like we had in 2005, you need guys that are better than "efficient". Had they moved down to select Oher instead of Smith at RT, and grabbed a top notch C (like a Pouncey) or Guard (like an Iupati) a couple of seasons ago instead of grabbing skill positions, I would have a different opinion about Dalton since our OL would be on the verge of being one of the most dominate in the NFL again. We now need to wait another year to significantly improve the OL.
Posted by: blesterov | June 22, 2011 at 06:26 PM
This Boling kid can play. I think they took him because he played all over the line at Georgia, and that kind of guy can save a lot of money. Like Whit his first few years.
I think he'll be starting before the next season ends and be a bright spot.
I really want to see Joseph stay. I don't think he's elite, but definitely top third for corners. it just gets old when they do draft a guy that they need that should be here from 10-12 years and having to replace him after his rookie contract. (Steinbach, M. Williams) I wasn't a big Madieu fan but his contract wasn't that big in Minnesota and it's certainly better than having to call in Ratliffe every year because you are so shorthanded.
The two corners should be solid for 4-5 more years which should allow them to address other spots. Like safety. Christ have they ever addressed safety? They finally addressed tight end. I would hate to see a scenario where Joseph leaves and they play pacman and draft a corner next year. I'd rather draft an o lineman, or a safety.
They play in a division where Reed, and Polamalu win games. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out. Constantly replacing players is a problem that has never allowed this team to make a run.
Posted by: JM | June 22, 2011 at 08:14 PM
As Hob pointed out in one of his inane bengals.com posts, they couldn't start Mathis over Livings because they had him at backup center in case Cook got hurt. Which makes all the nonsense in the world.
Posted by: Sly Vramavomovich | June 23, 2011 at 10:40 PM
I'm kind of past the point of caring about the Bengals but at the same time I would still probably not be able to stop myself from throwing a rock at Mike Brown if I ever saw him.
Posted by: Sly Vramavomovich | June 23, 2011 at 10:42 PM
Every year in the draft they are chasing positions to fill. They have no plan other than manage the salary cap to allow to allow for maximum profit with the least amount of work.
They bengals have shown many times to reach for players and or their position while passing on capable available players to fill or back up positions needed right now.
Jerome Simpson is a great example. It takes a player like him so long to begin to contribute and this is a luxury that only a few teams who know what they are doing can tolerate and those teams usually do not draft what if's over what we need.
Every player that comes here wants to be positive but they soon realize that it is what it is. You can show up and collect a check whether you win or lose, mostly lose but, you just have to say you want to win and are working hard to do so, and all is good.
Anyway, enough of the gloom and doom, is everyone excited about the possible players to get into the bengals VIRTUAL hall of fame? Got to love their ability to do things so bad while believing it is so right.
Boomer and his comments against MFB forever! MFB NEVER!
Posted by: kotw65 | June 24, 2011 at 10:09 PM
@kotw65: Jerome Simpson has still done almost nothing. I don't know why if a guy has two or three good games Bengals fans suddenly think they've found the future answer... I bet even David Verser or certainly Peter Warrick had good games and they weren't the answer to any trivia question except "I'll take Bengals Draft Busts for 800, Alex"
The Bengals stink because their scouting and coaching is not up to par; because the owner is a cheap SOB and he's running football operations except he has no clue about how to run a team that could win the Super Bowl.
Andy Dalton will be thrown to the wolves. As the author rightly points out he's going to be running for his life most plays.
Posted by: PaulBrownsBastardSon | June 25, 2011 at 09:32 PM
Excuse me for the words "begin to contribute" instead of "actually get on the field during a game" Either way the opinion stated was not of a fan stating happiness of a certain players ability to contribute, it was stated as a few teams have the luxury to take such chances on players and the ones that can usually do not. They pick what is needed not what they hope for over X amount of years. Smiley face....
Posted by: kotw65 | June 26, 2011 at 08:06 PM
"Constantly replacing players is a problem that has never allowed this team to make a run."
"The Bengals stink because their scouting and coaching is not up to par; because the owner is a cheap SOB and he's running football operations except he has no clue about how to run a team."
Between the two of you, you nailed it!
Posted by: Bob F. | June 27, 2011 at 05:55 PM
I guess what I'm getting at is that when they do happen to find average to above average players their managerial ineptitude keeps these guys from staying.
Posted by: JM | June 27, 2011 at 10:15 PM
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Posted by: 特价机票 | June 29, 2011 at 10:37 PM
in bed!
Posted by: FuManChupacabra | June 30, 2011 at 12:16 AM
Evidently we are not censored on Google China...perhaps due to the perceived nod, to Red Asia's idealogical incli-Nation, lol
Posted by: FuManChupacabra | June 30, 2011 at 12:19 AM
From Dave Rimington (this should be on the front page of WDR)
When Dave Rimington played at Nebraska, he became accustomed to top facilities and a winning standard as an All-American lineman for the Cornhuskers.
Once he joined the Cincinnati Bengals, he got used to a much different brand of football.
The Bengals have been voted the worst organization in professional sports.
"I went from one of the best organizations in college football to probably one of the worst organizations in the NFL," Rimington told ESPN.com. "I went from a weight room that was half the size of a football field to a weight room that looked like a junior high weight room, and the strength coach didn't want anybody to lift. ..
"It was ridiculous the stuff we had to go through there. I just had to shake my head. It's like the black hole of professional football. Good players go there and you never hear from them again."
Posted by: PaulBrownsBastardSon | July 05, 2011 at 06:44 PM
Breaking News: Whines Hard arrested in Georgia at 4:31 am this morning for DUI. I'm predicting now that the Steelers cut that smiling jackass to "prove a point", which conveniently neglects to point out that he's in the downside of his career and it's really not that big of a loss.
Posted by: Wyatt | July 09, 2011 at 11:27 AM
Aaaaaannnnnnndddddddd leave it up to Pacman to fuck up a good "Steelers player gets in trouble" weekend.
Thanks, dick.
Posted by: Wyatt | July 10, 2011 at 09:52 PM
In other news, Tiger woods is going to have a "sit-down" on Monday...to announce that he has realized that he is in need of redeeming, and so he has inked a deal with the Bengs
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