As you might have been able to tell with the lack of posts, it is very hard to get excited about anything NFL. Ohhhh, the Bengals decided to rebuild their team through WR, which has worked so well in the past! It honestly gets tiring to continually have to try and rationalize the Bengals decision-making.
So with that said, I still have have no idea what to think of the Carson Palmer situation. Here are the two main arguments that I can't decide which has more merit:
1. It makes me very sad that the first time Carson steps up to the team is to demand a trade. He has been largely silent on a team that needed a real leader. This year's team also could use his leadership. But he apparently has decided that he would rather leave and join a team where he can continue to defer to others when it comes to leadership.
2. Finally, Carson has stepped up and said something publicly to express his frustration with the direction of the team. Signing Marvin and drafting a top WR, regardless of the track record of high draft WRs, has done nothing to change Carson's outlook of the future success of the team. Like we at WDR have said, this is like using makeup to cover up a cancer cell. Might look better but you have done nothing to cure the underlying disease. But at least it's something - and maybe this will not only encourage other players to stand up but also will show fans that there is something seriously wrong when your $100M arm is threatening to retire vs. play for your team.
Now I also know that there is no way that Carson will be traded. Mike Brown reiterated yesterday that have no intention of trading Carson, and that they will meet Carson's bluff and force him to retire. This should not be a surprise to anyone who has followed the Bengals and remembers their history in dealing with disgruntled players.
In the short term, the Bengals would probably win a few more games with Carson over Andy Dalton, but Carson's productivity is certainly declining so who knows what the true tradeoff. I guess my severely pessimistic opinion really is, "If Carson is a Bengal next year or not, what does that really change, in the short term or long term?" If there is a season, the 2011 Bengals are not a playoff team with Carson and there are not a playoff team without Carson. Does this improve their chances long term? It's hard to look be convinced that anything will affect how the Bengals do business. But like everything with Bengals fans, here's to hoping.
With or without Carson they will win no more than 4 games this coming year.
Posted by: kotw65 | May 24, 2011 at 12:36 PM
There is hardly any merit for arguement 1. You can't say enough about quiet leadership, leadership by example. It sure as hell doesn't discredit someone as a leader if they are a quiet leader. None of us are in the locker room. Even Joe Reedy can't really tell us a completely true account of the insides of the locker room. So, who is to say Carson isn't a leader, or even an outspoken leader, in the locker room. For a guy to not air differences with teammates publicly is more to his credit, and should also not discredit him as a leader. Maybe you say you haven't seen him yell at teammates on the bench like Jordan or Brady (actually I have seen him lay into Chad and others on the sidelines). But look at all the differences in coaching, management, and players that surrounded those players compared to Palmer's pathetic situation. Lastly, it's not his job to reign in players like Chad, Henry, or whoever else all the time. These are failures in coaching, and more so falls squarely on management. I'm tired of the arguement that this team has needed a vocal leader. Like that would actually change things (i.e., that would fix the real problem, which is Mike Brown, player personnel decisions, coaching personnel decisions, etc.).
It's a two way street. I get that. People in camp 1 are not completely wrong, there is some truth to their arguement. But, arguement 2 has far, far more merit than 1.
Posted by: bungalfamily | May 24, 2011 at 12:45 PM
It's hard to get excited about anything NFL and particularly hard to get excited about anything Bengals. I was ready to give up on them this year anyway. Carson walking away and the lockout have just reinforced the decision I've been trying to make giving up this life-sucking addiction.
Posted by: brian@treasuredlocks.com | May 24, 2011 at 12:48 PM
Thanks Mike, for forcing your fave player in the last decade plus to go with the ultimate ultimatum (redundant?). That takes real skill and moxy, and while I'm keen on both of those characteristics, I believe it takes a third characteristic to acheive what you have so bravely made happen. It's blind egotism that has flown high in the face of epic failure after epic failure. COngratulations on winning the "sporting stubborn idiot curmudgeon of the century" less than two decades in, very well played sir. Seriously, this is yet another shining example of what Mike considers winning. It's winning off the field that counts silly fans, that's where the $ is. Any GM/Owner with any desire to win would get some VALUE from Carson while they could to improve their team. This whole idea of Mike being smart so as to quell any future attempts at mutiny is really a crock. Run your org. the way you should, and you won't have to worry about players trying to jump ship. Last I checked, nobody is asking to leave the Steelers or Patriots or Packers or Falcons or Ravens or Colts or.... trade Carson for two draft picks, benefit next year and the year after, this one is a lost cause aside from the learning curve for Dalton and Green and the few other picks that will see playing time this year. Sorry for epic length, particularly angry about the same old bullshit today.
Posted by: CurseofBoJackson | May 24, 2011 at 03:48 PM
1) You nor me, know if Carson has or has NOT 'stepped up'. Whatsmore, you will NEVER know that. That's the thing about professional sports, only about a third of what you hear actually has happened. There is so much that is made-up and there is so much that you never hear about. You don't know what he's like in the locker room or on the training table. Sure, there are those idiots who give you general terms but really they aren't giving you shit. It is nothing but a bunch of lip-service. 99.9% of the time it is someone speaking with their own "axe to grind". A lot of those people are the very same lockerroom cancers that inevtiably end up leaving town on a rail. So, you don't know and that should take care of your first 'question'.
Alas, I will also mention that you are going on the assumption that he's been a quiet leader because he certainly couldn't be the vocal leader and therefore NOT doing this. This assumption can be wrong -- or right -- either way, you may not know. Just because someone who has lockerroom access says or doesn't say something, that doesn't make it true or false nor does it necessarily encompass the entire aspect(s) of the story. Some things are simply not talked about in front of non-team members. As I can definitely tell you, the same thing happens with Marty Brennamen. It has happened with Joe Morgan -- the moment that he was no longer playing baseball. (note: he may have had some ability to know things that only baseball players and former players were privy to, but things that were taking place with the team right there and then?).
Just for kicks, how do you know he didn't have a whale of a hand in the signing of T.O.? Oh that's right, he did and in fact, no one gave him much credit for it and like him or not, TO kept his mouth shut and played well all season long. People forgot about Carson Palmer going to see TO in California. In fact, they purposely forgot -- to acknowledge it would have been to note that one was a hypocrite -- it would have ruined the idiotic arguments at the start!
It is funny as much as poeple on this board want players to come out and flame MBMBB, but the closest that one is going to get is what Carson has done -- especially since he doesn't want to cut his nose off to spite his face (i.e., shut himself out of a trade because he upsets all the other owners). How's about this is tacit acknowledgement of the piss-poor fuck-shit that is the Cincinnati Bengals and their ownership/management? Why not let that be it?
As to his 'productivity' I would argue that the ineptness of the people around him has been the prime reason for his productivity downturn. Anyone want to argue a point that can't be proven OR disproven?
Posted by: wch | May 24, 2011 at 07:06 PM
Not that I want to trash Carson because I believe he's been a good QB for the Bengals over the years and with the right system could have been a great QB but everything Comrade Brosef is saying regarding his leadership skills (or lack thereof)is something that was known or should have been known when the Bengals drafted him.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfldraft/tracker/player?id=7035
Posted by: Comrade Ken | May 25, 2011 at 10:23 AM
WHO GIVES A SHIT.
Posted by: Neutered Bengal | May 25, 2011 at 04:37 PM
Not just Carson, but I'm betting a lot of players in that locker room were counting on their head coach taking a stand. When Marvin backed down, Carson's frustration level went critical. What Carson is doing is as much for the fans as it is for him, whether he or we realize that or not. Based on the track record of previous drafts, this one will likely be less that stellar. And with the same coaches and same management philosophy, we will likely be here in 20 more years saying and complaining about the same things.
Not much hope for Bengals fans. But thanks,Carson, for trying. Now don't pull a Marvin and let us fans down.
I suspect that if Carson holds out for 2011, Brown will trade him at the latest before the 2012 season.
Posted by: Bob F. | May 25, 2011 at 05:54 PM
WTF?
"But he apparently has decided that he would rather leave and join a team where he can continue to defer to others when it comes to leadership."
BULL-SHIITE!
He's decided he doesn't want to waste his career playing for a piss-poor piece of sh*t team that has no chance to win anything because it's crippled by a know-nothing greedy moron owner/"GM". He already sacrificed his knee for this team (the man walks around with a dead person's ligament) -- he then busted his ass getting back on the field in record-breaking time. That's leadership right there. That's guts.
Carson Palmer is a wealthy man and a smart man. Why do this NFL gig and get the crap beat out of you on Sundays when there's no chance of reaching the top *ever*? Good on him! Most NFL players are like the parade of fakers who've graced Riverfront/Cinergy/PBS during the last 21 almost entirely dark years. They're just going through the motions, getting a paycheck, like the Washington Generals of the NFL. The designated losers. Carson wants to win, and he's smart enough to know that isn't happening in Cincy as long as Mike Brown owns the team.
Good luck Carson! I hope you are freed and get to succeed elsewhere like Corey Dillon.
Posted by: PaulBrownsBastardSon | May 29, 2011 at 03:32 AM
Anyway, I was going to go on a long rant about how he openly flaunts botched expenses, errouneous expenses and how important he is all the while Sports Illustrated has to be going down like a sinking ship (hopefully). Blah, I'm so pissed and stupified I can't even think straight.
Posted by: CHRISTIAN LOUBOUTIN SHOES | June 02, 2011 at 04:24 AM
If Carson played, Andy Dalton would have a chance of living to have a career. If the Bengals throw him to the wolves, he'll most likely end up like Akili Smith.
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