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Who Dey Revolution Manifesto

  • Preamble

    IN THIS TIME of perpetual Cincinnati Bengals incompetence and futility, with zero playoff wins in the nineteen seasons since the WhoDeyRevolution Godfather, Paul Brown, passed away in 1991 and handed the team to his fortunate son, the Despot, Mike Brown;

    Introduction

    WE, the members of the Who Dey Revolution, in our fervent dedication to the Cincinnati Bengals and fanatical desire to transform our hometown team into perpetual Super Bowl contenders, call for a popular revolution of fans to demand comprehensive reform to the managerial decisions and approach of Cincinnati Bengals ownership, management, staff and players, and hereby call for the adoption of the following Who Dey Revolution Manifesto:

    Manifesto Demands

    THAT the Mike Brown, Katie Blackburn, Marvin Lewis, along with every other member of the Bengals management, staff and personnel, state publicly to all Bengals fans, “I will do everything in my power to help the Cincinnati Bengals win a Super Bowl;”

    THAT Mike Brown will hire a general manager, drastically expand the scouting department and relinquish all control of player personnel;

    THAT all training, rehabilitation and medical facilities are considered best-in-class compared to other NFL teams;

    THAT the management fill the team only with players who fit the system, both mentally and physically, and are not reluctant to makes changes to player personnel when needed, regardless of cost or loyalty concerns;

    THAT offensive and defensive line depth is considered the top priority for all player personnel decisions;

    THAT all decisions made by ownership, management, staff and players, both on and off the field, are judged only by this criterion: “Does this help the Cincinnati Bengals win a Super Bowl?”

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January 20, 2011

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Agreed. I can think of 3 interceptions where T.O either quit running the route or didn't try to keep the defender from getting the ball. Even though they weren't getting a lot of yards, when they stuck to the run at the end of the year Carson seemed more at ease and his decision making improved drastically from the beginning of the year. Also, when you don't have to worry about polishing the knob of T.Ocho's ego's and just get the ball to whoever is open you don't fuck up as much either.

Agreed on all points Kevin. I will always remember Chad quite fondly but it's time for his act to move on elsewhere. It is also now stale here, like so much else about this team.

What's funny is I am not so sure how much it all really falls on TO...maybe it was more the conflict between Brat & TO on how to run a passing offense. It just seemed like TO was ready to murder the guy the whole season. I think it made him a lazy receiver too.

Regardless, I think it is valid that teams feel obligated to throw the ball TOs way, even if it's not the right play, just to keep him satisfied. Who knows if they actually do need to do that or not to keep him from exploding...but it doesn't matter because the perceived need exists and that is a recipe for disaster.

I love it! The best part of the future perceptions of this team is that all of the players to help make/get things where Mike wants/thinks they can be will be drafted by them. Them meaning Mike and his Bengals family inherited team who rank 10th in the NFL for having players they drafted still actively playing.

Hold on Carson it's a gonna be a long ride.

The one thing I will always be grateful about T.O's time here is publicly ripping Mike Brown while being a Bengal. Some might call them "disruptions", but how many times were Cincy fans/reporters disagreeing with him?

Well put, SWB. The other factor that isn't being accounted for with Carson in 2010 is how crappy the defense played for the first half of the season. The defense constantly had the team down 14-17 points any given week (see New England and Atlanta games) and Carson was forced to throw the ball A LOT. Most people look at those games and say that he had "garbage stats", but I'd argue that he brought them back in those games. Beyond that, the running game sucked until the last month of the season, so the offense was very one-dimensional most of the season. The best way for Carson to elevate his game is to get rid of Chad and Brat, while not even THINKING about bringing back TO. Unfortunately, given Marvin's press conference today, it sounds like Brat isn't leaving--fuck. I think another WR brought in couldn't hurt either. I'd prefer a veteran WR, but I'm also torn on whether they should draft a guy like A.J. Green to help the offense out.

The playoffs aren't even over yet and here we go being all optimistic about getting better results out of the same basic scheme. You may have a very valid point about Carson being our best bet, but in no way do I expect things to be any better next year.

@ghostchild,

The Bengals went ahead and kept absolutely everything the same from a season where they lost 10 in a row with decent talent. I absolutely expect them to continue to underperform given their talent level next year. I'm just saying we really didn't get any definitive evidence that Carson is a bad QB despite the fact that most people would probably consider him a bad QB last year.

With a last place schedule, easy conference rotation (NFC West and AFC South?) and a high draft pick my guess is we have a winning record next year. Which will be really bad for the long term health of the team.

FTA:

Good news, AFC playoff teams: The San Diego Chargers are staying home for the postseason, thanks in part to their 34-20 defeat at the hands of the Cincinnati Bengals. Don't let their 8-7 record fool you, the Bengals [sic] are one of the AFC's most talented teams, and despite some miserable special-teams play early in the season they were capable of beating anyone.

That's a pretty big freaking typo.

@gorf,

Hahahaha...I saw that too. Amazing non-catch by the editorial staff.

I disagree completely. Carson didn't have to throw the ball to T.O. did he? If he was so concerned with them bringing him down why throw to the clown? Why risk the interceptions? He throws some of the worse passes I have ever seen in my life and has so much trouble converting on 3rd down. I do not disagree that there is talent buried down in there somewhere at all. I appreciate your efforts to try and defend the guy but blaming other players is just not going to fly.... its our Offensive coordinator that likes to call the same damn plays every week and Carson not being motivated.

The problem is just flat out that he is unmotivated and his morale is at an all-time low. He is not much of a leader it seems.

@Madams,

As much as I'd love Carson to become fiery leader who called out coaches and ownership for lack of commitment to winning that is a pretty unrealistic thing to expect anyone to do. If we want him to be a great on field QB and also lead La Revolucion I think that's pretty unfair.

Also, like Marvin, it's pretty hard to stay hungry and motivated under Mikey's nonsense year after year after year...almost everyone is susceptible to Bengalization. I don't think it's fair to fault him for growing weary of dealing with the way Mike Brown does things either.

Wah fucking WAAAAHHHHH! The truth is that people expected (and some I would dare say 'DEMANDED' that T.O. be a problem child and cause all kinds of problems (so the blame could be placed on him (turns out people just found a different way to lay blame upon him -- see above!) or that the entire Cincinnati Offense just went 'lights-out' and became the best QB/WR corps that the game has ever seen. Well guess what sports-fans? That didn't happen. The QB had some respectable numbers in toto but people look for the long (and medium) ball and call it (the seasons)a collapse (perhaps with good reason) when the numbers come up as a result of 99.99999999% of the passes being thrown for five or six 'vertical yards'. Try assigning blame to T.O. for that one? That is situational and Offensive Offensive Coordinating.

The FACT is that the pre-conceived notions that many had for T.O. weren't met -- they were certainly expected, but alas, they weren't met -- and the same goes for Johnson (who I WILL address as Ochocinco the moment that he presents himself to me and tells me that his 'namechange' wasn't a pulicity stunt -- until then: Johnson is his name) -- Johnson was inked in as being a twin to T.O. -- he was either going to have an excellent year or he was going to provide turbulence at every turn. He did neither -- and 'fans' are pissed at that because they now have no one to blame with ANY legitimacy! But as I have known, someone not having a legitimate blame, eventually the 'fans' will say: 'Hell with legitimacy, I don't like the POS, so I am going to blame him ANYHOW!' That's how its being done and a look above shows this rather clearly.

The simple FACTS are that what was anticipated, never happened and that makes people (see above) unhappy -- especially when their ego's are so strong that they don't want to admit that there thoughts previous to the season -- you know, those ones where someone says: "I know football and what I think HAS to be the truth!" -- the ones where they just can't lose face by admitting that they were wrong or indeed, that they didn't know what the FUCK they were talking about. So instead of simply issuing a mea culpa (that's an 'apology' to all those who live in Delhi or believe in the Cincinnati Bengals' capability of being great) and moving on (but learning and not forgetting their mistakes -- ya can't just brush it off and act like it didn't happen), you know these types, the ones that have to come on a 'weblog' and run that 'soup-cooler' under their nose -- that they are almighty and 'ominpotent' (that's pronounced: AHM-nip-oh-Tent -- not AHMNEE-po-TENT for those mental midgets down on 7th street!!!) as to all things football!

Quit living in the 'ether' and start living in reality and realize that it IS a game, you should NOT live your life by it and if you do, seek counseling as you are a (sic) 'retrad!'

Realize that you are only a number to the Enquire and their idiots -- you are a rating helper to those on radio etc. and that they are only going to tell you that which 'sells'. They are invested in keeping up the issues here -- lord knows that we have a fucked up team to begin with and talking about things ON the field (which is what SHOULD be talked about) don't have any legs.

If people wanted wanted be legitimate, this 'thing' could be wrapped up in a one-hour radio show (if it took that long). Basically it is a case of: We are a fourth rate city and not likely to get any better. The moment Chicago opened up their stockyards in the 1880's (or so), our prominence went into the shitter -- our best reaponse was: "Oh yeah? Well we got... ...we got uhm.... We have pigs intestines!!!!" So if anyone tries to classify us as a first-rate city -- tell them to go get fucked and join reality!

This is a case of a person having an 'Airtight' lease -- and those that voted for the stadium, you provided for that -- you are the dumbasses -- live with it.

This is a case of a billion dollars being spent: to what end and what guarantee? NOT A FUCKING THING -- who's fault is that? When you come down to it, if there was no stadium, you wouldn't have to worry about the expenses and the fact that the Bengals don't give a flyin' shit! So again, blame your own petty-assed selves (keep in mind that this doesn't apply to everyone -- just the ones that -- if the shoe fits!) for what's happened.

This is a case of no one in this city being able to affect this situation -- alas, only God could. The NFL isn't going to do it, the Government has already ruled that this is out of their jurisdiction etc. Ya can't do a FUCKIN' THING! How about a 'sportscaster' spreading that little does of realism?

It would collapse the media as well -- lord knows that aside from Aunt Dorey's cow farting during a church social -- not much happens in Cincinnati (and I kind of like it that way -- let LA have its 10 billion gangs killing each other for the 'right' to sell crack on a certain corner -- let NY have its occasional MOB raids, Let Chicago have its pathetic and dirty politics -- I would just as soon stay in little ol' Podunk, Cincinnati, OH -- where some shit DOES happen -- but we aren't the hell-holes of the aforementioned cities -- I'm just sayin'!). Maybe it'd shut up fools like that schmo up at the Enquirer (well several of them anyhow) and a few of the TV talking heads?

This is NOT a case of where I am saying to take what you have and be happy, no, I want us to strive for me but I say: "Don't strive for more if by doing so, you sell your soul!" Unfortunately not have many sold their souls, they've sold their common sense!

Can't stand the Brown's, Marvin, or Brat, but here is some solid evidence that Carson's judgement and leadership skills are lacking, and not what Cincinnati needs to build a winner:
1. He publicly lobbied to get T.O. here, whether someone put him up to it or not.
2. He stated prior to the season having T.O. and Ocho Stinko as primary receivers would be a positive, and was up for the challenge to keep them in line.
3. He has never criticized the OC, and his overall positive opinion of Brat has to be a major consideration in Brown's decision to keep Brat around all these years. Either Carson doesn't want to learn a new system, is merely collecting a paycheck, or actually thinks Brat gives the team the best chance to win.

Just sayin' that besides all the pick-6's on the field this year, we have to factor in the "soft skills", and consequently I'd take someone with Boomer's attitude and leadership any day over a wuss like Palmer.

Bieniemy:

Until this franchise proves otherwise, the assumption for me (and now many/most others) is that the problem is internal and not external (or located in one or two players, i.e., "T.Ocho").

The management is attempting to portray these two guys as the "cancer" that ate away the heart, brain and muscle of this team in 2011. However, that is Mike Brown being Mike Brown. And I am kinda disappointed that a pretty good football judge like yourself would fall for this and the type of Propaganda being spewed by Baghdad Hobson.

Reading through your preliminary analysis, I think that you got the initial premises correct in regard to the expected progress of the passing game in 2010. However, you gave the first one (i.e., Carson's elbow OK) a check. Are you sure about that?

I can say that between national and local writers, the consensus is that Carson's arm is not A-OK. Again, review of the film shows Carson having problems on the deeper throws, the narrow window throws and the throws in which he crosses his arm to the left side of the field. I reviewed these particulars with a couple of QB coaches and in some Orthopedic literature and found that this pattern aligns with continued problems with a thrower's Ulnar Collateral Ligament (UCL) in the elbow.

Mike, Marv, Brat & others will point to the last two games and say, "Well, then how did Carson do so well?" I will again challenge those who question to look at the film. The long passes in those games were not thrown as well as you would expect from most NFL QBs, and they were nothing like what we had come to expect from a $115 million, "human JUGS machine" QB. What we did see in those games was Palmer throwing the shorter passes well especially when throwing out of a run-first scheme (i.e., against man coverage). Some will come back and say that the final long pass vs. Baltimore to Caldwell was on target. To that I will agree but will point out that there were about 4-5 other long passes in the Chargers and Ravens games -- some completed, some not -- that were thrown too long or too short when guys were open by 3-5 yards. And this isn't the Carson Palmer that the Bengals drafted in 2003 and developed/played through early 2008.

Two things that I have heard from others about the patterns of problems with a UCL injury involve problems related to the release point and the velocity of particular throws. Apparently from medical literature, the higher the velocity attempted, the greater the stress on the elbow. Additionally, the vertical and lateral angles involved in the release can affect the accuracy of the throw with this injury depending on which portions of the UCL are affected. From QB coaches it is noted that the longer throws require a change in the angle of the arm and a subtle change in release time, both of these depending on the distance and arc intended for a particular throw. Carson had problems throughout the season when he wanted to uncork a low-arc long-ball. We saw this in almost every game -- from the short ball at the end of the first half in NE, to the short and left pass to T.O. in Atlanta, to the short ball that Caldwell caught but couldn't advance against SD. And Palmer overthrew a wide-open Simpson vs. SD and underthrew a ball that was tipped back and became a TD to T.O. vs. Miami -- just to name a couple of the many others. There were some decent longer throws, but those usually travelled only 30-35 yards in the air: the TD pass to Simpson vs. SD and the ball into the right corner at home vs. Pittsburgh to name a couple.

And there were those intermediate post patterns that Chad and Carson made lethal through the years -- what about those? They were usually high this season with a few being picked off, a few caught with outstanding effort by Chad, a few on target and many simply incomplete. We all saw this in the games. We saw the look on Chad's face when he got up and couldn't understand what was happening to his buddy's arm. To Chad's credit, he usually shrugged this off. Against Pittsburgh at home, we finally saw Chad's frustration as he yelled at Carson -- yes, we remember Whit telling him to shut up and Marv pulling him out of the game. And T.O. was equally frustrated and finally started saying simply that "they can't get me the ball when I'm open." And he was telling the truth as he hinted that Carson was unable to make the throws that we once made with ease. To T.O.'s credit, he never once threw Palmer, who had lobbied for us to sign him, under the bus by name. We might even remember T.O. walking away from Palmer on the sidelines at Indy when Palmer threw an INT to the Safety and tried to imply to T.O. in his conversation that his route caused the bad pass.

And then there were the shorter passes that were just flat-out bad. Usually these throws were to the left side of the field. The final pass attempted to Peerman against the Ravens comes to mind here. As I hinted above, not all UCL injuries are the same. There are three bands that comprise this ligament, and an injury can affect any one or combination of these. The effect of the injury varies from person to person depending on the degree of the tear(s), the particular band(s) injured and the recovery period. For most minor injuries, the QB is able to start throwing again in about 3-4 weeks and has no after effects. For those injuries that require longer waits, there are usually chronic problems as recurrent injury and pain results with subsequent throwing. As we recall, Carson did not throw for about 10 weeks after his injury and did not return to play any games in 2008 after struggling through the Dallas game a week after the injury vs. the Giants. Further, some people advocated surgery -- either then or now. However, surgery often can't "fix" the physical limitations that come with subsequent instability in the more serious injuries.

After you really look at all of the film and critically ask yourself whether there is a pattern as I have suggested above, then I believe you will start to wonder about Plan B and will ask yourself whether it is worth risking and/or sacrificing another season to get absolute proof that Palmer is no longer the franchise QB for which he is being paid. Are we willing to pay a guy $12 million a season to be a game manager? How will that affect the running game over time as teams no longer need to keep their safeties deep? With the decent two final games of 2011 that Palmer had statistically, we could still probably get a decent trade for his services.

Even before the "Carson Question" is noted, I have lost a lot of ability to expend energy analyzing this team. And if we "amateurs" can see what is going on in this particular case while the franchise does nothing except to stay put, then we know that one or more of the following things exist in the coaching and ownership of this team:

a) The analysis and self-scouting is so bad that these guys can't assess the problems in the overall throwing abilities of Carson

b) The GROUP THINK is so bad here that nobody wants to go against Mike Brown, who is committed to keeping his boy Carson in the driver's seat

c) These guys simply aren't worried about fielding a championship team

I personally think that a) and b) apply. Too many people state that Mike Brown does want to win. However, we know that he only wants to win using his own methods and that he doesn't want to look elsewhere to apply the Best Methods that have been developed around the league to field and maintenance a top level franchise. The QB quandary here is just another symptom of that disease. We can fool ourselves and buy into this thinking that "all will be well" in 2011 with T.Ocho gone. However, if/when that equation proves not to work, what excuse will we use next? Why are we afraid to look at the film and listen to outside sources who are hitting us in the face with the evidence?

@ West TX,

You lost my attention (and probably everyone else's) by the 3rd paragraph, when you started second guessing Palmer's arm. If he is still hurt (emotionally or physically), then he should not keep saying he's fine and taking the field. You clearly you're sick of excuses (like T Ocho), but then come up with one of your own for Palmer. And since when is the national media right about anything when it comes to the Bengals? Marvin was long gone, according to the national media.

I am completely covered in barbecue sauce right now.

It should be obvious to anyone that Palmer should have gotten the elbow surgery. He can be accurate at times, and way wild at others. Unfortunately, he did not have it done, and now it's likely too late. Any proper organization would have given Palmer an ulimatum that he had to have it repaired, or so-long (along with little brother). No such thing as a multiyear gaurantee in football. Of course he's with the Bengals, so nada.

Some of this has to do with the Bengals singular talent for nearly always picking the wrong players. But, Palmer certainly gets his share of the blame.

Irony:

wch spends about five hours carefully constructing yet another post on WhoDeyRevolution intended to tout his vast intellectual superiority over the rest of us, who he attempts to refer to as "retards". Not only does he misspell "retards", he also gives a completely accurate description of himself when he's rambling on and on about fans who think they know more than they actually do and JUST WON'T SHUT UP.

I, for one, am glad wch posts here - not only do I find his (or her) posts completely ridiculous to the point of being humorous, but it also makes me glad that I'm not him (or her).

Can we talk about how Marvin is totally incoherent for a few minutes? If he talks to players the way he talks to the press, no wonder they don't know how to tackle.

Yetanother argument that amounts to: If you take away all our horrible shitty plays, we woulda won the Super Bowl.

The Cincinnati Groundhogs: still leading all of Pro Sports in woulda, coulda, shoulda.

What a joke of an article. Did you watch Carson play this past year? He was awful! There's a reason everyone made fun of him - he was awful!

I honestly read 2/3rds of this article and thought it was making fun of what will inevitably be the Brown family PR take: Jerome Simpson! Andre Caldwell! We converted 9 of 10 first downs when on our own 38 yard line!

Ah crap... I hate coming in late... let’s see if I can catch up...

@ Kevin Jones - Agreed. Critics will pain T.O. a million ways from Sunday until for the next thirty years, but I will remember his time in Cincinnati as the ONLY guy in Stripes who ever had the nuts to call out Mikey Boy and Brat from the field. Remember last year, the national critics just talked about Carson and no receivers; that was the sound byte. This year, the national media can't mention the Bengals without inference to Mikey-Boy Brown or Bobby Brat. T.O. did that for us, and no one will tell me otherwise.

@ CPC - You are correct, sir! How does a defense that was ranked no.4 in the NFL just last year return all its starters with one of the only adored members of the coaching staff and suck as bad as they did! What's more, they made improvements in the off-season by added Gybril and Jones to the secondary?!... okay, so they both broke along with Odom, but still. Last year our defense was the only thing that kept us in the game as Carson only scored more than 17 points once all season. This year, it was our defense that blew games for us, as Carson had plenty of +300 yd games... and Benson had over a 1000 yds on the season.

@ West TX - Wow. Are you a nurse or just watch a lot of HOUSE? I'll buy that his elbow might be a factor, but not enough to wash him up. See: Curt "Uncle" Warner's bionic arm.

@ wch - (I(can)t(tell what(you(are)trying(to say). Seriously though. Your futility and whining reminds me of the kid that was too busy complaining about the foul on the last play on the playground to shut-up and enjoy the thrill of the recess. You must be a very sad and miserable person to feel such a lack of hope for this team’s situation.

and finally...

@ SWB - I get your point, and I agree. But the T.O. acquisition followed a logical sequence of events, which, though controversial, was seemingly necessary. We 'knew' that Carson needed more weapons, and I still worry about depending on Simpson and Caldwell as long as Brat is the O-Coach. Historically, after mid-season, Brats passing plays are as transparent as frosted glass, and it takes a masterful WR to keep them executable. With Bryant tanking right before the gun went off, we took a shot. We missed, and missed big.

But I don't regret it at all. We needed to see if it would work. I think last season without T.O. would have been just as bad, maybe worse. I am hopeful for next year... at least right now. There is a lot that is airborne, but if Marvin can guide in all the pieces, I honestly think that we will be all right... but Carson remains my X-factor.

Which takes me to my central disagreement - your second point. The statistic of the Bengals O-Line being ranked 7th in the NFL is BECAUSE of T.O., Ocho and Palmer, not because of that line. Last year this site was barking for a OT in the first round rather than a TE. What changed with Whitworth's game? Nothing. Carson got the ball off faster because he had all-star receivers. I've said it before and I'll say it again, when Carson did get a pocket to throw out of, it was tighter than a pair of emo-kid jeans. He threw to T.O. because he got open, which is T.O.'s credit. They were wild throws because he was throwing out of a glass-box the size of a telephone booth.

Even if ol' 77 protected Carson from a few stuffs, you compare that to the number of false starts that guy racked up for the line over the last two year (other than CBs with pass interference calls, he leads the team in penalties earned), it almost would have been better to just take the sacks. Fuck Whitworth.

The O-Line still needs a massive overhaul. I call shenanigans that Carson was well protected.

West Tx,

I agree on your medical assessment. From what I have learned in talking to trainers/ other coaches is that the injury Palmer sustained also can cause a numbness feeling in his elbow. Which means that his body may not be able to properly translate the force and trajectory that his brain is telling his arm to provide. This may also help explain why some of his throws just look off.

In the Ravens game of week 17, when he missed some passes it looked to be from mental pressure and sloppy technique rather than physical mistakes.

Take it from Bart Scott, who helped harass Tom Brady all day last Sunday and made Brady look like Kerry Collins. “He started looking for the rush when there was no rush,” Scott said. “He thought after a certain amount of time somebody was coming, he was fidgeting. . . . Most quarterbacks don’t like getting hit. They get hit and they turn into a totally different person.”

This is Palmers #1 problem.

It showed in games against the Steelers and Ravens. When teams get pressure on him he gets back into his 2006/2007 routine of forcing passes when he shouldn't. Even if he has time, his internal time clock in his head is telling him to get rid of the ball or he is going to get nailed (in his mind I can only imagine that translates into busting his knee again). There was a huge difference in Palmers performance against the Chargers and then the Ravens. In week 16, he obviously had confidence in his OL to give him a pocket. He was rarely touched that game. It showed since he put up his highest numbers of his career. The following week, he was not confident since he knows the Ravens bring the pressure and his performance and passer rating suffered b/c of it.

The solution is for the Bengals to invest in their OL! Give him a line that he has confidence in and Palmer will produce. Yes, he may throw some balls randomly off target sometimes, but he is clearly not done yet. They need a stud LG (Pouncey in the draft would be fantastic), a RG to eventually replace Williams, and possibly a new RT depending on how moobs does this offseason. If they protect their $12 million investment, the return on that investment could be very surprising.

@west TX - I kinda sorta hedged with the check on his elbow thing (I said "check, I think"). I am willing to hear arguments that the injury was not treated properly I just don't think anyone can say for sure. If in fact his elbow is ruined then obviously this whole discussion doesn't matter and we should look for a new QB.

But in my mind, the problems seemed to be more mentally driven by 1)lingering effects of getting battered in 2007 & 2008's behind a terrible oline and 2)general malaise of lame duck Marvin & 10 years of Brat.

@guttersnake - I am saying the following about TO: 1)I supported it at the time, 2)I love that he called out Mike Brown/Brat and 3)He was a disaster on the field in retrospect for Carson. As mentioned above, Carson was SO bad throwing to TO that it dropped his passer rating almost a full 10 points on the year (from 90 to 80). We can talk about how fidgety and inaccurate Carson was, but it turns out that seemed to come only on his throws to TO and no one else. You have to explain that before you do what Mike H does and just call Carson terrible. He was specifically terrible.

Also, in general, my point isn't that Carson is great and we're gonna return to glory yay! It's that, tell me who we are going to find that is better than Carson. And let's not even bring Carson's giant salary into this and how we can find a good enough substitute for much less. This isn't baseball, moneyball stuff doesn't need to apply, the Bengals can spend like everyone else. Fuck Mike Brown. He can eat every penny of Carson's contract.

Also @guttersnake - you can tell me the offensive line was bad but I'm citing FO and PFF who literally watch every snap of every game and chart the success/failure of individual players. AND in FO's case, they adjust for down, distance and opponent's strength. I am open to hearing arguments that the line had bad protection, particularly on the right side where I will tell you it sucked, but I think it was good enough this year. I am waiting for PFF's end of season rankings but my guess is the Bengals come close to top 10.

With Whitworth, Mathis, Cook, Bobbie, and Collins at the end of the year, the line seemed to do just fine. That line played starting with the Saints and the offense seemed to perform much better. I think that line still can be MASSIVELY improved and needs to be...but I don't think, for example, Peyton enjoyed much better play in front of him.

Aaah the comedic stylings of wch. So kind of him to stop by and educate all us "retrads".

Is this ESPN.com? Man everyone really wants to push the anti TO, anti Chad agenda. Obviously Carson was to blame for Carson's poor play. Still think Chad can be effective as a #2 and would love for him to stay. Why hate on Chad- shows love for Cincinnati (and none towards Bengals ownership) and actually has fun and entertains while he plays. Heaven forbid someone in the NFL has fun. Does everyone just prefer robots play these games out?

Losing respect for WDR if they are in fact Carson apologists. Even having said that I still think he gives us best chance to win- see Mark Sanchez... not a great QB but Jets are getting it done anyway.

Check out the interview with Boomer Esiason and Peter King from Sports Illustrated on Charlie Rose. Mr. King points out how different quarterbacks have gotten better after getting rid of mouthy receivers. He describes how they create a distraction in the back of the quarterbacks mind, 'I better get the ball to him somehow or he's gone blow up and create a soap opera while everbody's trying to focus.' How many drive killing penalties and wrong routes and miscommunications has Ocho been guilty of? I can't find the stat but I know he must have the all-time lead in false starts by a wide receiver. Talented sure, but one of the most inconsistant WR ever. And never forget that he had a personal melt down when the team had the lead at half-time in a playoff game. Chemistry matters and T.O. and Ocho destroy it. I'd like to see Palmer one year without Brat-'they always know exactly what we're gonna do but we'll just out execute-em"-kowski and the Glimmer twins before I make a final judgement on Palmer

Let's get this straight, even without TO, Palmjob still would have had a passer rating under 90. Sorry bengal brudduhs, but Palmjob is done. You can spin this and blame TO and Oucho Stinko, and they deserve plenty of blame for being lame receivers, blowing routes and not giving half of a fat rat's ass, but Palmjob is a rotting corpse with no signs of getting better. The decomposition will continue until we get a new QB. Sure, keep Palmjob on a couple years, he can serve as mentor to, say, andrew luck when we draft him in 2012, kinda like a Kenny Anderson entre to Boomer. But Palmjob ain't taking us anywhere of substance. Stick a fork in him, he's done. Same as it ever was and there is water at the bottom of the ocean.
Your most humble and loyal servant,
Dixonator
P.S. I long for the relief death will bring!

@sex on the breech,

All I am saying is Carson gives us our best chance to win (just like you are), this post is not a lovefest for him. In fact, the clear mental problems he has in both nervousness in pocket and a defeatist attitude may be irreversible after so many years being Bengalized. I'm just saying it seems to me the jury is out on if he can be saved when you factor in things like TO.

You say obviously Carson was to blame for Carson's bad play. Okay, then why was he so perfectly decent on the 447 throws to other receivers? It's a HUGE statistical difference that can't be brushed aside. Until you explain that as Carson's fault then perhaps TO is indeed responsible for Carson's poor play.

swb,

it seems to me that TO was carson's go-to guy this season. I remember back in the day when it was just chad and TJ that carson would use the strategy, when a play totally broke down, instead of throwing the ball away he would throw it just outside everybody's reach towards chad, hoping that chad might make a huge play and bring it down. he would throw where only chad would have the slighest chance of touching it, and therefore the numbers between carson and chad would look worse than they really would have been if he hadnt taken that chance. i think TO became that person, but add into the fact that this was their first season together, it never really worked out the way it had in the past with Chad. I could be totally wrong, but i would be interested in the same kind of research applied to Palmer and Chad over the past 5 seasons and see if the same is true about Carson to his #1 versus Carson to the rest...

Another interesting thing to see would be how much those statistics are influenced by the last two games. Sounds like a Bengals PR move to use stats from 2 meaningless games. However, the Chargers were trying to win, so you can't completely discount those stats.

I think bringing back Chad is a smart play- still lets Shipley, Gresham, Simpson, and Caldwell get reps and Chad can still be effective, just not as a #1 receiver. Draft a lineman this year, Luck or some other blue chipper in 2012.


I find myself rooting against the Bengals now if they don't change their front office methods per Manifesto on the left. I just picture the Browns holding the Lombardi trophy and it would make me angry... in the end this is their team, not Cincinnati's. Then again, that is like saying you have to root for gravity so we don't all go flying off the planet. So that's why I say, barring significant front office changes, I'd rather see the Bengals leave Cincinnati than win the Super Bowl.

@ickey's,

Here are Carson's career passer ratings by season on passes targeted to Chad. Note, I don't have interceptions on passes targeted to Chad so I will give two ratings: 1) based on interceptions being proportional to his targets and 2) a "worst case scenario" where 2/3 of all interceptions were on passes intended to Chad (equivalent to TOs abominable rate this year).

Passer Rating by Year
2004 - 80.65 (68.33)
2005 - 104.37 (90.93)
2006 - 94.40 (80.70)
2007 - 91.33 (70.63)
2008 - 71.97 (71.97)
2009 - 97.81 (84.89)
2010 - 77.70 (67.78)

Even if we are terribly unkind to Chad his passer rating was never as bad as TOs was from Carson this year (67.78 is worst). Even in year's like 2009, when the team depended on him more than any other team depended on any single wideout (I posted on this awhile back), Carson still had a rating of close to 100 (85 if we allocate more than his fair share of interceptions). Chad was a helluva player. He may not be a good fit personality wise anymore here but he was a great Bengal.

I'm a fucking douche bag. I am the one who's the ball licker. I get all high and mighty in my stained tighty whitey's, who dey!

@wch

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, I couldn't have said it better.


I think the Bengals should be renamed

"Mike Brown's PGC (Pretty Good Competitors)"


I would also point out that this post should not be a lovefist for Carson

Carson sucked this year.

Does anybody seriously think Jerome Simpson is gonna end up as more than a footnote for the "we coulda picked that awesome guy in Philly" rememberance of 2020?

Bieniemy:

Thanks for the f/u note. Now it looks like we'll get all the hypotheses answered as Carson postures to go elsewhere. If he moves on and looks the same under a "better" system, we'll know that indeed his physical abilities aren't a "check" after all.

It's a sadly ironic day for WDR. With the season ticket invoices going on using Palmer as one of the top faces of the franchise, Mike Brown's world just crumbled a little more. Even his damaged goods don't want him anymore.

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    Bengals Futility - By The Numbers

    • 20 - Years since the Bengals have won a playoff game

      0 - Total number of playoff wins in Mike Brown's tenure as owner

      .359 - Bengals regular season winning percentage since Mike Brown took over as owner (115-206-1 in 20 seasons)

      29-34-1 - Record since 2005 playoff game vs Steelers

      6 - Seasons the Bengals have lost their first six games since 1991. No other team has more than two.

      0 - Teams North of Cincinnati without an indoor practice facility

      10 - Players arrested in a 14 month span from 2005-2006

      32 - Mike Brown's ranking, out of 32, of the "Best Owners in the NFL" by Michael Silver of Sports Illustrated in 2007

      458,000,000 - Amount, in dollars, that Hamilton County Taxpayers paid to build PBS

      2032 - Year that Hamilton County will have finally paid off its debt on the stadium deal

      3 - Total number of non-clerical employees employed in the Bengals scouting department, lowest in the league

      747,000,000 - Amount, in dollars, paid in free agency by the Bengals from 1994 - 2005, second worst of all 28 teams in existence for the duration, behind only Arizona

      118 – Ranking, out of 118 professional teams, of the “Worst Franchises” in professional sports, as ranked by ESPN the Magazine in 2003.

      97 – Ranking, out of 98 general managers in all four major sports with three or more years of experience, of Mike Brown’s performance as a GM, as ranked by Forbes in 2007.

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