Carson a Quitter vs. Carson the Shrewd Negotiator

Two of the best opinions on the "Carson Demanding a Trade" story I have read so far come from CBSSports' Gregg Doyel and our very own Paul Daugherty of the Enquirer.

Doyel brings out the hammer on Carson, claiming that Carson and Carson alone had the power to change things in Cincy, and now when he failed to step up and be the leader that Cincinnati needed, he is taking the easy way out.  The whole "Carson and only Carson had the chance to change things" was a topic we discussed back in December.  On another team that has a natural leader, maybe it would have been OK for Carson to be a "Quiet Leader."  But with a weak HC and a weak QB, you get a team run by Chad Johnson.  As Doyel puts it, "...Carson Palmer, exerting none of his influence, diminishing his own power to the point that he was the team's most expensive player, most important player, maybe even its most talented player -- but he was just another guy in that locker room. No more influential than anyone else."

Daughtery takes a different tact, using Carson's willingness to walk away from millions as another indictment for an organization that is clearly not committed to winning.  As Doc says, "Palmer is a grounded homebody, who doesn’t need the money, not even $50 million. He hunts some, he plays some golf. He’s not a conspicuous consumer. The man is desperate enough to float retirement as an alternative. That says more about the franchise than it does about him.

Palmer took a beating in 2010, on the field and in the court of public opinion. He’s fed up. Can you blame him?"

So far, I am still not sure what to think.  There is clearly a lot of middle ground between both of these sentiments. Yes, Carson has failed to become the vocal leader that the Bengals need in the locker room and has failed to step up to ownership and demand changes.  But, as Doc says, can you really blame him?  And if fan discontentment is already sky high, with fans cancelling season tickets right and left, would Bengals fans FINALLY turn on Mike Brown if Carson was let go?  Would that finally be the catalyst for some changes?

 

Comments

[ghostchild]

I think we'd need more than one player, even if it is our franchise QB, to step up and say "I'd rather not play at all than play for you." before Mikey would try to change anything.

[nathan]

Doyel's article- well, its obvious this guy doesn't cover the Bengals. Marvin Lewis a weak head coach.... the guy who "changed the culture of losing" and won two divisions? And Carson should have done more to control To, Ocho and TJ? Why? Publicly fueding QB/WR tandems do better?

Last year was not Carson Palmer's fault. He wasn't great, but he's not a bum.

[Dixonator]

Palmjob is done as a viable QB in the NFL. That said, he's been bengalized and beaten to a pulp thanks to a coach and owner who couldn't give a damn about doing the right thing to support him with a cast of competent players. More power to Plamjob, I wouldn't blame him one bit for walking away from this pathetic organization. Yes, it's an indictment of how pitiful this organization has become and Doc is on target on that. But anyone who thinks this will change the thinking of Mike Beelzebrown is fooling themselves. As with every other losing season this "team" has foisted upon its fans, it's always someone else's fault and certainly not the Prince of Darkness or Mediocre Marv. This franchise is completely washed up and there are no signs of recovery coming for years. Run Carson, RUN!
Your most humble and loyal servant,
Dixonator
P.S. I long for the relief death will bring!

[DELONTE]

This fucking clown of an owner will NEVER wake up! Stop looking for some way that this shithead finally changes. The only thing that will ever cause change will be the day the franchise is no longer in their hands. I gave up on this franchise in November and now I am more reassured as it was a good idea. Just like getting over a girl, it's tough at first not being attached to a team but after a while the addiction of gambling without bias makes it all better. Thanks Bengals for sucking so bad that I rode you for 9 straight weeks to $15000 winnings. You want a positive in all of this: bet against them. The future 0-16 seasons will bring in lots of $$$$$. Thanks Mike"Shitty Stain"Brown

[Bengal Realist in FL]

I say let this mother burn. It's well known that for an addict (Mike Brown) to give up his addiction (pride? the bottom line?) he has to hit rock bottom (star QB leaving, blackouts, bleeding money and fans) and have no other option but to die to his addiction or change for the better(winning? accountability? Business done the right way and football decisions made with due diligience??).

Let's just hope the dying option doesn't lead us to LA or another 20 years of futility.

[ghostchild]

Bengals Facebook page just posted that Brown is not going to trade Carson. Palmer requested the trade last week and Brown flat out told him no. Brown also says Childress is not coming to Cincy. Status quo.

[HappySameYearFromYourCincinnatiGroundhogs]

(a) Anyone is f-cked in the head if they think it was a lack of "leadership" from Carson that caused this franchise to suck. When your "general manager" solves the problem of not having a good enough defensive line by suggesting that a scrub tight end be moved to the position, you should take that as a clue that you're organization is run by a know-nothing dickhead. And the thing is that's just one tiny example of the cluelessness of Mike F Brown.

(b) I say if the dying option includes moving the Groundhogs to Los Angeles, that's infinitely preferable to even one more minute of "management" under the "leadership" of Mike F Brown. Let Paul Brown Stadium sit empty as a monument to the colossal failure of his son, and as a warning for anyone born with a silver football in their mouth. It's clear that until the franchise is out of the hands of Mike F Brown you'll get another X or Y years of futility. If the only way to pry the team from his hands is selling to Los Angeles, we should be all for that.

(c) I sincerely hope that the Bengals first round draft pick in 2011 decides to play in Canada. The next project mayhem task is to write letters to the potential agents for said first round draft picks pointing out that careers go to die in Cincinnati, whereas playing for just one year in Canada allows said player to "reboot" his chances not to have his career die in Cincinnati. Recall that Steve Young used the USFL to avoid becoming the first pick in the draft by Mike F Brown. Had Steve Young ended up in Bengal Stripes he probably would have had a similar fate as Klingler.

[BMN]

Today marks the 10th anniversary of Bob Bratkowski's hiring as offensive coordinator.

Let us all celebrate by breaking out our copies of NES Play Action Football, the game from which Brat took all of the offensive formations he knows.

[Dixonator]

Mmmmman this franchise and Mike Beelzebrown blows. See below for the Prince of Darkness's blatant rejection of sanity. Oh, he's a gooood owner, whatever.
Your most humble and loyal servant,
Dixonator
P.S. I long for the relief death will bring!

Mike Brown says Bengals won’t trade Carson Palmer
Posted by Mike Florio on January 24, 2011, 11:21 AM EST
Carson Palmer

We’ll it’s official. Bengals owner Mike Brown has confirmed that quarterback Carson Palmer has requested a trade.

And Brown says he declined.

“We are not trading Carson,” Brown said, in a quote posted by the team on Twitter.

ESPN’s Chris Mortensen and Adam Schefter reported on Sunday that Palmer wants out, and that he’ll possibly retire if he’s not traded.

Since all of Palmer’s signing bonus money has been counted toward years he has played under his current deal, which runs through 2014, Palmer could retire without having to forfeit to the Bengals any money that he previously has received.

That said, he’d also be giving up nearly $50 million in future salaries, assuming that the Bengals keep him for each of the next four years.

Palmer turned 31 on December 27, 2010, and he presumably has at least another five years left, if he chooses to keep playing.

[TheCarlPickensClause]

ghostchild --
That's basically happening with players right now. Chad did in 2008 and is starting to sound like he's doing it again this year with his "I don't know if Marvin and I can co-exist". Cedric came out and said he won't play here without major offensive changes and now Carson is holding a full-blown revolt. Does Mike need the WHOLE team to strike on him only AFTER fans say they're cancelling tickets?

I just don't get what it is going to take with Mike Brown to change. We all jokingly say "it'll change when he dies", but that's looking more true with every day that passes and every phrase he utters to the media. His mini-presser today regarding Carson was a joke. He implied that Carson met with him last week, exchanged the trade rhetoric and then it is where it is now. According to Brown's media session today, he sounds as if he doesn't even know what's bothering Carson specifically, even though they met and spoke. I don't get it.

[CurseofBoJackson]

Greggggg Doyel is a grade a Douche Bag, has been since he ran the morning Am show with Mo Egger. He's simply trying to get attention with sensationalism and controversy. He knows first hand what a fucking train wreck this FO is and somehow lays all blame at Carson's feet? Give me a break. Anyone with half a clue knows that although Carson is a part of the problem (I personally want him to not be my QB anymore), that he has never had level playing field save for the 04 and 05 seasons (arguably). My one hope is that once he's gone and not under the choke hold of the Carl Pickens clause, he goes public with all that's wrong with this FO, and he should, it would make him my hero.

[Kevin Jones]

I read Gregg Doyel's articles on a fairly regular basis, and the Carson story was just to get hits. He's lived here for awhile and is quite familiar with this team. His "shtick" is being "mean" and "in your face". He's a dick to people who you think are nice, and flips the script when it comes to people easy to hate (like writing a nice story about the Jets after he's been saying for weeks he's gonna rip them a new one).

I believe Carson is a fucking martyr! He's laying his football future on the line in order to make watching this team some what bearable.

[Rob]

Carson is doing what Marvin should have done. Carson sees that no changes are coming and is taking action to get out of a bad relationship. Marvin should have done the same thing.

I agree with Doyel a little bit. I would have liked to have seen Carson be a more vocal and demanding leader. But I agree whole-heartedly with Daugherty, this is more of a slam on the organization than it is on Carson.

[Major Payne]

In 29 or 30 other franchises, Doyel might have a point. But MFB is the quintessential Immovable Object. He is the EPA of the NFL. He is going to do what he is going to do, and no amount of threats, cajoling, bribes or sheer common sense will convince him to do otherwise.

Who can blame Carson for feeling beaten down? I feel beaten down, and I don't have to report to PBS for work every day. Retirement is his only way out of MFB's swirling vortex of hell, and he knows it.

No doubt Carson now curses the day he signed that contract extension. Any of you Reds fans still wondering why Joey Votto only signed for 3 years?

[PAl]

Mike Brown sees things differently in his delusional world. In the real world we see black but in the World of Mikey, he sees white. We see a team that is totally dysfunctional due to an incompetent mentally challenged owner, he sees it as "just the way things go in this league", certainly no fault of his own.

There is no hope.

[bunker]

This immediately popped into my head yesterday, and I thought it made sense then, but I wanted to sleep on it. I did, and it still does.

Assuming we had managerial competency with the front office (and we don't), here is what the Bengals ought to do.

1) Trade Palmer to Seattle for their 3rd round pick (what is it, 26th or 27th?). Ask for the 2nd, but happily take the 3rd. He and Pete can blow each other in the rain all day long while sipping lattes. Who cares?

2) Get Kolb from the Eagles for a 4th. I'm pretty sure the Eagles would take this. I'd try to get him with a 5th, but happily part with a 4th.

3) Bring Chilly in to run the West Coast. Kolb is a West Coast QB. Nice fit there.

4) In the draft, you now have two picks in the 3rd - one high and one low. You spend rounds 1 and 2 on D-Line and Safety. With your first pick in the 3rd, you take the best RB on the board, and then grab the kid from Nevada (Kupernick?) with the pick from Seattle. Groom him for a couple of years, because he won't be ready for probably 2, and lean on Kolb while you do so.

5) If there's a guy you've got to have at the tail end of the 2nd round, you can package your 3rds and move up. You can probably get Kupernick 10 picks later (top of 4) anyway.

[CurseofBoJackson]

Payne, totally mutually exclusive, that's a stretch armstrong. Castellini and Jocketty have more than a clue, and have that team on the right track. Way off base, Votto signed a short contract because if he continues to perform even close to the way he did last year, he will price himself out of CIncy's market. That's completely diffeent than turning down 13 plus mil per year just so you don't have to deal with incompetent management and it's perpetual results. To quote Cris Carter, "C'mon MAAAAN!!"