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Who Dey Revolution Manifesto

  • Preamble

    IN THIS TIME of perpetual Cincinnati Bengals incompetence and futility, with zero playoff wins in the nineteen seasons since the WhoDeyRevolution Godfather, Paul Brown, passed away in 1991 and handed the team to his fortunate son, the Despot, Mike Brown;

    Introduction

    WE, the members of the Who Dey Revolution, in our fervent dedication to the Cincinnati Bengals and fanatical desire to transform our hometown team into perpetual Super Bowl contenders, call for a popular revolution of fans to demand comprehensive reform to the managerial decisions and approach of Cincinnati Bengals ownership, management, staff and players, and hereby call for the adoption of the following Who Dey Revolution Manifesto:

    Manifesto Demands

    THAT the Mike Brown, Katie Blackburn, Marvin Lewis, along with every other member of the Bengals management, staff and personnel, state publicly to all Bengals fans, “I will do everything in my power to help the Cincinnati Bengals win a Super Bowl;”

    THAT Mike Brown will hire a general manager, drastically expand the scouting department and relinquish all control of player personnel;

    THAT all training, rehabilitation and medical facilities are considered best-in-class compared to other NFL teams;

    THAT the management fill the team only with players who fit the system, both mentally and physically, and are not reluctant to makes changes to player personnel when needed, regardless of cost or loyalty concerns;

    THAT offensive and defensive line depth is considered the top priority for all player personnel decisions;

    THAT all decisions made by ownership, management, staff and players, both on and off the field, are judged only by this criterion: “Does this help the Cincinnati Bengals win a Super Bowl?”

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September 13, 2010

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My question would be what does the site you reference use as their basis for what a good defensive player is?? Stats?? I say this because unlike offense it is hard sometimes for people outside of football to come in and say how good a defensive player is especially if they base their rationale on stats. Revis is the best CB in the league but i'd bet you any amount of money he doesn't have the most tackles or interceptions by a CB this season. If you are good enough you won't get stats since they won't throw it your way.
Similar deal with Peko in my mind he may not get to the QB or get a lot of stats but that may not be his job, his job may be to hold up two OL so that Odom or Geather's gets to the QB.

I do agree though that our DL looked like a JV team yesterday. I just have trouble trusting sites that base their reviews of defensive players based on stats. Most of Haynesworths job in TN was to open up room for the LB.

I think we need to be concerned with the whole damn thing.

Go to the site and read about their methodology. It will not be driven by almost any traditional stats at all. Rather, they look at each player and just see if he was great, good, average, bad or horrible on each play...they then assign that a number value to be able to quantify it.

I have been saying it for almost two year that Peko should not be on this team, he is just not fast or strong enough to play that position.
Get some youth in there.

1) i agree peko is the pits

2) the methodology is actually pretty excellent on defensive individual players. they basically attempt to understand what the guys role was in a certain play, and then ascertain and evaluate whether he succeeded. so a good DT may not necessarily have to make a tackle, but if he occupies two blockers without getting shoved 5 yards downfield he gets a + for basically influencing the play in a positive way that also is in line with what his role was for the play. in short, they are using numbers to quantify success/failure as it relates to (in marvinspeak) "doing your job" moreso than say, accumulating traditional stats. so i think, TheTruth, you'll actually be pleasantly surprised with their data if you do take a look at how they accumulate it. specifically with peko, they are saying he consistently fails to occupy blockers in general without getting blown off the ball. if you have the time and the inclination id recommend just dvr'ing a bengals game one time, pour yourself a nice whiskey drink, and watch just peko on defensive plays on like a wednesday night. trust me you'll need the whiskey.

3) the mathis thing is certainly infuriating to me not only bc PFF is so high on him, but just because livings is so clearly terrible. arent you always convinced when theres a flag on a running play that its going to be holding number 63? between his holding and dennis roland's myriad illegal formation violations (tho brat has to be blamed here too) parts of the o-line are damned frustrating. can the fat man big andre step up too please? can he please earn the right to start over dennis goddamned roland? seriously? if you get a chance check out roland on the play his guy sacked carson yesterday, its borderline hilarious how he just gets shouldered 4 yards backwards, flailing away in the air like hes just been pushed off a cliff or something.

4) finally, one week is one week. am i nervous? of course. but that said, i do believe theres enough talent on this team to still be really good, we match up well with the ravens, and if we can beat them at home next week we're really set up for a strong start to the season. its a big week for marvin, zim, et al

Nate is 62, Bobbie is 63

Geathers is a bigger liability in many ways and they pay him a lot more money.
But who would expect anything different - the Bengals actually don't invest that many draft picks on the defensive line. In the years where people said they needed to pick a defensive lineman first they went linebacker.

Check it for yourselves -- the most commonly picked position by the Bengals in rounds 1 thru 3 is linebacker. Number of Pro Bowl seasons by Bengals linebackers since Jimmy Carter was President? ZERO.

Two more things:

1. Baltimore wins this division easily. They are a good pick for the Super Bowl. As Pro Football Outsiders will tell you, they were pretty darn good last year too. They're stomping the Jets offense in NY tonight... 4 first downs for the Jets with 2 minutes left to play.

2. Marvin's defensive front 7 picks have been really quite bad: DLinemen picked in rounds 1-3: Frostee Rucker (never won a starting job, never will), Pat Sims (a body), Michael Johnson (a tweener, still has a shot), Dunlap (who knows?); Linebackers picked in rounds 1-3: Caleb Miller (bleh), Landon Johnson (blah), Odell Thurman (gang banger), Keith Rivers (nothing special), Maualuga (not really impressing me so far). In rounds 1 thru 3 you have to get some Pro Bowl guys once in a while.

3. Lewis has been Bengals coach so long that he's had the chance to draft guys and then replace them with more of his own picks. And still no playoff win. How many coaches get that many second and third and fourth chances?

Domato Peko (or however you spell it... ...ever see the HBO show Arliss? He had a boxer for a client -- his name was Tah-MAH-to Kahn! Henceforth, Peko is always known (to me anyways) as Tomato Can!

I kind of have some issues with PFF's scoring system, but it makes sense what they are trying to do. As a former coach who had to break down film, it is very hard to get much information from the camera angle they show on TV. Since PFF doesn't get access to the end-zone film, which is a better depiction of what is actually happening (line splits, secondary formations, pre-snap reads, etc.), their scoring system is very subjective.

I agree with a lot of their observations, e.g. OL overall is good w/ a few weaknesses (been saying that all offseason, and I was pissed we missed out on a LG in first three rounds of the draft), Witworth is a good LT, Peko is not a stud at the running game (he typically makes a tackle 5 yards downfield), and our DL is not the best in the biz, and of course TJ is overrated (now- age caught up to him really fast).

What they don't account for is the ability of defensive schemes to cover/ protect your weaknesses.

Look at what the Pats and Ravens did Sunday and Monday night, supposedly they both have young and inexperienced CB's and not the best pass covering safeties. Both teams shut down the passing games of their opponents. The Bengals only started moving the ball once the Pats went in prevent mode. The Ravens just hammered the Jets all night long.

Zimmer has been able to overcome the weak DL by blitzing, stunting or moving personnel around to get good match-ups. Until Sunday, he has won the chess match almost every week. He looked more like Breshnahan against the Pats with guys on the field running around looking like fools - Dhani Jones I am talking to you.

The weakness of the interior of the OL is not that noticeable until we get into 3 & short situations (or key passing downs where we will get pressure up the gut). Our OL gets blown up almost every short down situation in the middle. It tells me, that we need to pass on 3rd & short since we can't go outside with a stretch play (Gresham will miss his block), and we can't go inside (unless we bring in a third OT), but I bet Brat will continue to force the run on those situations.

So the question I pose to everyone is this: since we know our DL is not great, would you be in favor going after Haynesworth to try to shore it up? Would you be willing to give up a 2nd or 3rd round pick for him? Is he worth it?

I find it hard to believe that the Bengals defense magically got bad in one offseason and after ONE game in the 2010 year. This is an offseason that they've added depth on that side of the ball and lost zero starters from last year's #4 squad. So, what is the issue then? Where they charlatans over the last two years when they've improved steadily to a top-5 defense? Have other teams figured out their tendencies and/or weaknesses and have exploited them? Have they gotten complacent with all of the press telling them how good they are? Was last week just an aberration and can be attributed to the facts that they "were thinking to much and weren't ready to play" and they played Tom Brady? Is it s a combination of some or all of the above?

I don't know--but a couple of things are certain: there were warning signs in the preseason of the defense struggling and they had better fix the pass rush. Zimmer said that the defense was thinking too much because the coaches "threw too much information at them and didn't let them play with their instincts" (how many times have we heard this after a Bengals loss?).

Well, here are some ideas:
1.) Draft/bring in players that actually know how to pass rush instead of having to "teach" it to them, as they've apparently been attempting to do all offseason. Guys who can rush the passer have a knack for it--you shouldn't have to teach them.
2.) If players "are thinking too much" and aren't performing well, maybe they should stop getting cute with players like Michael Johnson. The guy is a Defensive End, not a LB. Rey Maualuga is a MLB not a SAM. Play guys at their natural positions, they'll play "instinctive football" from there.
3.) Play MJ, Fanene and Dunlap at the Ends over Geathers and Odom. Geathers is worthless and Odom is getting there. You drafted MJ and Dunlap early for their pass rush abilities. Use them--it can't get much worse than the "pass rush" from last week.
4.) Look at free agents like Adewale Ogunleye. They probably could give you some value at an inexpensive price--especially on 3rd down situations.
5.) Lay off of Peko. Zimmer touted him as one of the best defensive players he's ever had. He's probably their third best defensive player (behind Hall and Joseph) and is a greatly respected player in that locker room. He'll always be pretty good, not great.
6.)Maybe we all calm down a bit as it's only been one week against a good team on the road. We all chanted "In Zim we trust" this offseason, so let's see if he is the guy that we all think that he is. No doubt that adjustments need to be made, so let's see if Zimmer can make the right ones.

Ed,

I agree with you that the ship is not sinking just because of one game. I have faith that he is a good coach and can turn the defense around pretty quick. Every guy has a bad day once in a while. His just happened to be laughable it was so bad on national TV.

1) They just did that with Dunlap and Atkins. The problem is rookies don't make that big of a difference typically their first year on the DL. They don't develop until the second or third year of their career.

2) I think you are right on point no. 2. They need to get Johnson in one spot and leave him there. In the preseason he was playing Sam, DE and at times DT. The guy was a valedictorian in high school but there were like 20 people in the class. I think SLB is a better fit for him or just bring him in 3rd down as the DE to pass rush. He is too small to be an every down LE.

3) According to PFF, Geathers had the most QB pressures so I would not label him a "waste". Pressures have a direct effect on a QB's rating and can lead to turnovers, sacks don't (unless they strip the ball).

5) They just need to use Peko properly I think that is what everyone is saying. I like his engine and work ethic, but if he can't plug a hole find someone who can.


this is a good thread. i agree with the vast majority of what everyone has been saying, including the parts about PFF not being able to take into account scheming, the bengals not suddenly becoming horrific defensively overnight, and zim just getting his ass handed to him on sunday for the first time in some time.

since i am unhealthily obsessed with this team i went over the dvr'd tape of the game late last night and early this morning and came up with the following tidbits, dont know if you all would agree or not:

1) carsons arm looks as good as it ever has, but his head simply needs to get better. there were two specific occasions beyond the pick-6 (an atrocious decision with the football) that illustrate the issue: a) the third and 6 down 10-0 at our own 42 very early in the second quarter when we were still very much in the game. the blitz gave pressure on palmer in the shotgun, and while he correctly read the blitz, he chose the wrong checkdown, no questions asked. he went with about a 1 yard in to a well covered TO to the left, when if he had simply looked right up the middle shipley had been crossing from slot right across the field and was completely uncovered 5 yards past the line of scrimmage. he could have walked backwards to a first down from there, and considering the pocket was collapsing from the outside and had a lane up the middle, its surprising carson went with the tougher throw. that one really hurt as we were trying to get just a toe in the door in the football game. b) obviously, the near pick floating to shipley on our first TD drive. that throw just cannot be made, although perhaps we can chalk this one up to what carson said in his postgame presser about making throws he wouldnt normally make. still, combined with his forcing the ball to TO short early and often, his pick 6, and actually 2 other near picks, the decision making has to make you a little uneasy.

2) roland and livings together on the left side just doesnt work. we did that one time in the first half, and it was the 2nd and 6 where ced ran to the left was destroyed in the backfield and fumbled. roland had motioned from being heavy right as the tight end into a "normal" left tackle position beside livings as it looked like we were trying to trick them into thinking we were running right. we ran left, and some NE guy just blew up right between livings and roland as if they werent even there, and started the swarm in the backfield. there were multiple occasions where roland got tossed around, and considering i thought andre smith looked passable himself, i would welcome a change at RT as early as next week.

3) i know we're giving zimmer a mulligan on the week, but the number of times we saw dhani jones, keith rivers, or brandon johnson on wes welker was completely unacceptable. it was part of the scheme consistently and when that was the case the patriots consistently abused that schematic choice. so many times, including his second td and both third down conversions on the pats clinching drive when it was 31-17, welker literally would just run forward 4 yards at the snap and turn around. nobody would be within 4-5 yards of him as a hole in the zone or whatever, but the point is you simply cannot have an underneath zone manned by linebackers when wes welker is your opponent and he lives by destroying that very situation. the one time we put leon on welker, he couldnt even get half a step on what turned out to be a double move bc leon had jumped the first route and then stayed step for step with him up the field. im not even convinced welker is totally back to being welker, he never even had to be shifty against us, he just went and sat in zones. i think we're talented enough at corner to challenge some people to beat us in man before we have to resort to soft short zones, ESPECIALLY against welker/k faulk types (not a good omen for ray rice receiving next week, please step up zim). this combined with 3 separate occasions in the first half when the bengals were literally just outmanned on a particular side (like the borderline comical 3 v 2 first touchdown which simms literally described as "a play you cant normally get away with in the nfl, thats normally a college type play") was not exactly the defense's finest hour.

4) i think the d line, on second observation, wasnt as atrocious as we have all made it out to be last week. brady only had 7 of his 35 passing attempts go longer than 8 yards in the air, and while a couple of those short ones were the result of zero pressure on long drop followed by a checkdown 4th option, a lot of times when we had blitzes on our someone (usually tank) actually was pushing the pocket brady would just fire it out to someone in the flat in about 2-3 seconds. j jo, in particular, seemed to play just too scared of getting beat deep by randy moss on bengals blitzes, and there were several occasions where a bengals blitz looked like it would have gotten to brady if he had not had the option of simply turning right/left at the snap and throwing directly to a moss with 10 yard j jo cushion. considering the 3 wrs of the ravens collectively average about a 6.0 second 40 at this point in their careers, i hope we use a little more press coverage this week. i think we will too bc not only do i still trust zim but i really love hte way we happen to match up w balt.

5) finally, to end the longest post ever, the skill players look very good. ced, other than his fumble, ran pretty well i thought. b scott looked good. chad and TO looked pretty good, shipley looked excellent with limited opportunity and gresham was solid in the passing game if not so much blocking (got blown up a few times).

heres a prediction, i think we not only beat the ravens sunday, call it 23-17, but the jets beat new england as well. i think they can learn from our errors and force new england to do a little more than they did against us. we're still right in the thick of it gentlemen.

Rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation. (John Kennedy, American president)


I would like to see the Bengals become an explosive, physical team...

...you know, like what you see when you watch the other NFL games that are on,

i.e. 'afterward', or 'joined in progress'


Who is going to be awesome this year?

I'll tell you who...


Shipley and Gresham are going to be awesome this year.

And now, those who will continue to be awesome:


Barnie (or Barney, if you like) Scott

Cedric Benson (said me)

L-Hall and JoJo

Quan "Bill" Cosby ( I mean seriously...who else do you know named Cosby? I'll skip the nickname, when Quan gets his own Saturday morning cartoon)

Those who will add a bit of "Hmmmm..." to the mix?

Chad and T.O.

The ones we should think about and pay attention to more often?

The guys in the trenches...the veterans and the rookies...

We should have a feature just on the O- and D- line guys...if they had a blog or column, I'd read it...

I would like to see someone set that up...either a local TV channel, a website, or a newspaper (like when Willie Anderson wrote for the Enquirer)...I would like to hear from each of them, on a regular basis


Can we call a spade a spade here, fellas?

Carson's pick-6 should've been a first down for the Bengals. If they're playing any other team, it probably would've been, due to any one of the myriad penalties you can call on defenders for the mugging Gary Guyton got away with. It wasn't a bad read by Palmer, because the ball was already in the air when Guyton grabbed Gresham by the arm and jerked him backwards, slingshotting himself into position to make the pick. Even the pro-Patriots commentary team (and god do I hate Phil f'n Simms) made mention of the fact that he got away with one on the play.

This is just another instance of the Chicken Little mentality that I mentioned in a comment that never appeared in the "Theory" post. Remember all the way back to the first game of last year? When the Bengals lost a hard-fought game to the Broncos on a fluke play at the end of regulation? And it was a sure signal that they were doomed to another terrible season? Yes, this loss to the Patriots was worse than that one to the Broncos, but these Patriots are a lot more talented than those Broncos, and I think this year's Bengals team is more talented than last year's. I don't go back and watch every play, but I know that last year, the Bengals would've lost a game like this 38-9 or 38-12, and Palmer wouldn't have had 345 yards. Brat would've kept running with Ced, Ced would've finished with 85 or 90 yards on 30 carries, and all the talk from this week would've been soooo much worse.

Am I happy with the result of the game?

Not by a long shot, but I'm willing to give the Bengals the benefit of the doubt for at least another week. I, too, am of the mind that they match up will with the Ratbirds and will likely pick up their first win this week. Let's hope VY and company can hand it to Dixon and the Yinzers, and then there's a 3-way quagmire at the top of the division (which the Bengals would technically be at the top of with a division win).

Tide,

You must have missed my post during the offseason that summarized the Bengal's offseason moves going back to 2005 to outline how they got to be where they are today. It was written to defend my position that Marvin has slowly and quietly built a potentially a good team (I still think that they are set up to have a better team next year, but that is beside the point). That was a long post.

I agree with all of your assessments. Palmer especially.

1) Excellent assessment. I noticed that his technique and footwork looked better already compared to last year. My frustration with the Bengals not getting a LG early in the draft was to have them provide Palmer a good pocket where he can be comfortable and wouldn't have to force his throws as often. When he gets into situations where he is pressured, I don't think he makes good decisions and he tends to force throws. It is his main weakness as a QB. The Bengals should have done anything they could to reduce the pass rush pressure to reduce the likelihood of those errors. He also missed a couple of reads, one that I remember was the deep pass to TO down the right side of the field. Shipley was running down the seam wide open after the safety jumped on TO, Palmer was focused on throwing it to TO, and missed the easy 6. Now what kills me about that, Brat or one of his assistants had to have seen that up in the box, and they never came back to it to take advantage of it- that is why Brat sucks.

2) I think they should just put Smith in and go with it. Roland was destroyed on a couple of pass plays on Sunday. Smith may suck at times the first couple of weeks, but to quote Rumfield sometimes you have to go with what you have.

3) Couldn't agree more. We should have used Jones, Hall, and Joe on their best three guys and blitzed Brady all day. It is what the Jets and Dolphins do to them and they typically slow them down. Zimmer must have gotten too tricky-dick or something. Whatever it was it was bad. I would much rather we loose from being too aggressive than looking like a bunch of amateurs.

4) You are right, Brady killed us dinking it short and then they rolled with on the YAC. I don't know how many times Welker was either sitting down in a spot or just would do a four yard dig across the field and it would go for 8-20 yards. It never should have happened. With Brady sitting back in the pocket keeping his jersey clean he could do that. Again, Zims scheme does not call for the front 4 to get the pressure. Its the blitz that you have to watch for. Not many teams can get pressure from just the front 4. The last team that could do it very well was the Giants when they beat the Pats.

I think the Bengals are still a good team and are still contenders. They just need to stop this crap where the need an ass whoop-in to wake up. I would love to finally get to watch a big game that they are in, see how prepared they are, watch them play without hesitation, and be a witness to them physically beating down an opponent like they are capable of.

No takes on the Haynesworth softball?

Blesterov,
As a former coach, how would you defend the trips left w Crumper/Gronkowski in front of Welker w Moss on the right? It seemed obvious on tv that a quick screen for Welker was coming but we still had two small corners over there to take on two monster TE's while Rivers was 10 yards away.
This formation always gives the Bengals fits, if I remember correctly last year the Texans used it to the right w Andre Johnson in the 1st qtr who broke a 50+ yd play.

Enjoying the comments, a few more myself:

@blesterov - "Again, Zims scheme does not call for the front 4 to get the pressure. Its the blitz that you have to watch for. Not many teams can get pressure from just the front 4. The last team that could do it very well was the Giants when they beat the Pats." I'm not pointing out they're not the 2007 Giants, with our secondary, they don't have to be. I just want them not to be graded the 4th worst line in all of football (bad vs both run and pass). I'd complain that we pay our D Line too much but I love it when shitty players cost Mike Brown money (unless it precludes him from paying good ones - which it hasn't so much lately).

@hofbra - yes, their needs to just be a smarter sports network or TV option than ESPN. Guys at PFF & FO should expand from the web onto TV.

@tide182 - I wish I had time to DVR and rewatch the tape of the game. How the hell do you get that? I am going to assume you are either a) not married or dating someone or b) unemployed. Either way, I enjoy that you rewatch entire games and tell me things. Thank you.

Also - yes, on the pick 6 the guy clearly pulled our WR back to him but I feel like it wasn't too much more than the usual stuff you see. Regardless, even without the pulling it was still a really tight throw with no real upside to it and tons of downside.

@tide - "brady only had 7 of his 35 passing attempts go longer than 8 yards in the air"...where do you find statistical breakdowns of that easily? Just in ESPN box scores?

Bien,

I agree. We should have a stout line on both sides of the ball. Most good teams have this. For some reason, we have struggled at this since the early 80's.

@ Josh. No idea in that situation, sounds they need to get a LB out there or a safety over the top. I was an offensive coord so I can tell you that 3 vs. 2 is a favorable matchup on the offensive side .

Where/what level/when did you do your coaching blesterov?

At Upper Arlington for three years while I was in grad school. We lost in the state semis to Moeller in a close game. While I was at UA, we ran a high school version of a west coast offense mixed with some Ohio State stuff. It was a shit load of fun and I learned a lot about the chess match portion of the game. I had an invite to go to Canton McKinley, but my professional aspirations led me down a different path.

I am no where near being a Bill Walsh, but I understand the game pretty well. Once I get the free time, I am definitely looking forward to getting back into it here in the DC area.

That was very clever to grab the opportunity. It is about right message at the right time. Also to be consider when doing these kind of campaign is to make sure it is relevant to your corporate or product and is sending the right positive message. In case of waynn it clearly sent the message they don't support drug. And what can be better pr than Paris Hilton. Like David mentioned 2.6 million visitors

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    Bengals Futility - By The Numbers

    • 20 - Years since the Bengals have won a playoff game

      0 - Total number of playoff wins in Mike Brown's tenure as owner

      .359 - Bengals regular season winning percentage since Mike Brown took over as owner (115-206-1 in 20 seasons)

      29-34-1 - Record since 2005 playoff game vs Steelers

      6 - Seasons the Bengals have lost their first six games since 1991. No other team has more than two.

      0 - Teams North of Cincinnati without an indoor practice facility

      10 - Players arrested in a 14 month span from 2005-2006

      32 - Mike Brown's ranking, out of 32, of the "Best Owners in the NFL" by Michael Silver of Sports Illustrated in 2007

      458,000,000 - Amount, in dollars, that Hamilton County Taxpayers paid to build PBS

      2032 - Year that Hamilton County will have finally paid off its debt on the stadium deal

      3 - Total number of non-clerical employees employed in the Bengals scouting department, lowest in the league

      747,000,000 - Amount, in dollars, paid in free agency by the Bengals from 1994 - 2005, second worst of all 28 teams in existence for the duration, behind only Arizona

      118 – Ranking, out of 118 professional teams, of the “Worst Franchises” in professional sports, as ranked by ESPN the Magazine in 2003.

      97 – Ranking, out of 98 general managers in all four major sports with three or more years of experience, of Mike Brown’s performance as a GM, as ranked by Forbes in 2007.

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