Become a Fan

Support the Revolution!


Connect with WDR

WDR Shirts


Who Dey Revolution Manifesto

  • Preamble

    IN THIS TIME of perpetual Cincinnati Bengals incompetence and futility, with zero playoff wins in the nineteen seasons since the WhoDeyRevolution Godfather, Paul Brown, passed away in 1991 and handed the team to his fortunate son, the Despot, Mike Brown;

    Introduction

    WE, the members of the Who Dey Revolution, in our fervent dedication to the Cincinnati Bengals and fanatical desire to transform our hometown team into perpetual Super Bowl contenders, call for a popular revolution of fans to demand comprehensive reform to the managerial decisions and approach of Cincinnati Bengals ownership, management, staff and players, and hereby call for the adoption of the following Who Dey Revolution Manifesto:

    Manifesto Demands

    THAT the Mike Brown, Katie Blackburn, Marvin Lewis, along with every other member of the Bengals management, staff and personnel, state publicly to all Bengals fans, “I will do everything in my power to help the Cincinnati Bengals win a Super Bowl;”

    THAT Mike Brown will hire a general manager, drastically expand the scouting department and relinquish all control of player personnel;

    THAT all training, rehabilitation and medical facilities are considered best-in-class compared to other NFL teams;

    THAT the management fill the team only with players who fit the system, both mentally and physically, and are not reluctant to makes changes to player personnel when needed, regardless of cost or loyalty concerns;

    THAT offensive and defensive line depth is considered the top priority for all player personnel decisions;

    THAT all decisions made by ownership, management, staff and players, both on and off the field, are judged only by this criterion: “Does this help the Cincinnati Bengals win a Super Bowl?”

Inaugural Post

Email Us

« Claws That Will Rip Your Face Off | Main | With Wilson Out The Bengals Are Left No Other Choice But The One Staring Them In The Face »

August 23, 2010

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00e550080ede883301348669e721970c

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Peter King Wonders Why Bengals Took Smith Over Oher, Proves Again He is Idiot Savant:

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Andre Smith : Bengals :: Greg Oden : Blazers. I am a fan of both. FML.

Respectfully, thats a bunch of B.S.
NFL teams aren't supposed to judge NFL players the same way college freshman do by listening to Mel Kiper Jr. and browsing ESPN every once in a while. NFL teams are supposed to scout players in order to make draft picks and not base their decisions on some vague media "hype".

Oh, and btw, anyone with eyes can see those HippopotaSmith boobies flapping around and get a hint that this guy might not be the biggest work ethic guy available.

Terrible draft pick. From day 1. Regardless of who else they coulda/shoulda taken.

@Mike - you are correct...but I'm just trying to capture the context at the time. Also, regardless of whether they did their own research or just browsed ESPN, the reality was Oher became a 20 or later first round pick. It's hard to justify taking someone expected to go that low at 6 and have to pay him top 10 money. I would have loved it had they done it though.

At worst, it seems like Eugene Monroe was the way to go there. Or anyone but Smith, really.

While the Smith situation has not played out well at all to this point, it's too early still to call it a "debacle" or label him a "bust". The guy came in late last year and played pretty well when in the game. I think once he continues to play this offseason and get reps, he'll be fine. I'll take a shitty-motivated, semi-out-of-shape (hopefully, by season's opener) Andre Smith at Right Tackle over Roland, out of sheer talent alone. Let 2010 play out. If he's still not seeing the field, is injured or is not playing well when out there, then crucify him and Bengals management for the pick. Not yet, though.

I will concede this: the Bengals needed a Left Tackle. They drafted arguably the most talented Tackle in the draft and he is their RIGHT Tackle of the future now. I think that they should have kicked Whitworth to Left Guard and put the rookie or Collins (he played well as a half-season starter in 2008) at Left Tackle. Now the Bengals are questionable at Left Guard and Right Tackle, and though stable at Left Tackle, Whit will never be elite at that position. So, with the right moves and planning, they could have re-hauled the O-Line with 1 veteran switching positions and bringing in 2 other good, young players. Now, it's shaky at the most important aspect of the team in one of their most promising eras. Andre needs to step up NOW. That's why Marvin was so upset earlier.


Oh, and Peter King is the uber-Douche. Was he writing that article while gargling Tom Brady's balls and throwing darts at a picture of Mike and/or Paul Brown?

HippopotaSmith is the classic Bengals reach for a guy with loads of talent but loads of discipline issues. Mike Brown loves to be a redeemer. And with an incentive laden contract, Lard-A*s won't even earn as much as Oher before the Bengals let him walk. So Mike Brown saves money which is what he loves more than being a redeemer.

yeah will this be the new strategy for cheap ass teams picking in the top ten, draft a guy you know wont make it through the contract???

P.S. Love reading your stuff on the site SWB and can't wait for the coming season.

Bien,

Thanks for all the research on this. That was about how I remember everything going, but I also remember the Bengals absolutely focused on Smith for months (to the point where it was uncomfortable to read about). It was like watching a slow motion train wreck. The team was drafting for a RT, not LT, and they wanted a run blocker- Smith being the stronger of the three in that skill. Remember at this time the decision had been made to move Witworth out to LT, and have Cook be the starter at C. Andrews was gone to play with his brother which never worked out for him (good riddance) and they needed to fill that big hole on the right side. Luckily for us Roland came out of nowhere to help the team out.

My thought on why Oher fell is that he is not the sharpest ax in the tool shed. The movie made him out to be almost mentally retarded, and I bet it would be difficult to find some quotes regarding his interviews at the combine or his test score, which was probably not good.

The decision came down to choosing between one of these poisons:
1. bad knees
2. bad brain
3. bad motivation

If it was me in the room, I would have stayed away from #1 since we just went through that with Jones. The guy may be good for a couple of years, but after that it could be downhill from there. We needed a guy you could count on for at least five to six years. Next, it would have come down to #2 or #3, and I probably would have chosen #2 b/c we have a worse history of succeeding with poorly motivated players (Big Daddy). The brains would be a major issue if it was a QB (Akali Smith), but I think I would have given it a shot since it was only a RT. Through in the intangible that the team would have gotten some much needed good press from Oher's upcoming movie. Oher did a great job at RT for the Ravens last year, but supposedly he is struggling at times at LT this preseason- I have yet to watch a Ravens game or practice so I have no idea if what I have read from non-PFT sources is correct.

Regardless, Oher looks as if he would have been the better pick to fill the RT spot at this time. However it is still too early to call Smith a bust. If Witworth can get on his ass to take care of himself during the season and next offseason he could be a stud for the team for a number of years. Smith needs an old fashioned Jack Nicholson code red ass-whoopin by the OL. I fear what will happen if there is no football in 2011 though, he could come back 400+ pounds or die of a coronary thank to Willie's Fat Burger.

@Blesterov - Oher didn't go to the premier of Blindside cause he bristled at how they portrayed him as a "simpleton". Reading the book, I never got that impression at all. You do make good points about Oher apparently struggling a little bit at LT after being a stud at RT. We could have used help at either tackle position at the time, so it doesn't much matter to me. If anything, it probably confirms that perhaps Eugene Monroe was in fact the right pick there.

Anyway, it's important to judge Andre Smith's career in comparison to Monroe and Oher. Mostly Monroe though.

Too early to make assumptions beyond Smith being lazy when he doesn't have a babysitter. Not that that makes him a good pick, but I thought he looked pretty good last year in his limited snaps. I will reserve judgement until he can't play, or can't play at the level he should be playing at come September. For the record, I wanted the Bengals to draft Oher, but Smith was my second choice, as Monroe had the well documented knee issues, and I was largely ignorant of Jason Smith's abilities aside from other people's opinions. Lastly and also for a point of reference regarding my decision making, I am the guy that waited until this past ('10) March to judge Mick Cronin as a bust of a coach. Gonna be a tough year at 5/3.

fact: andre smith was, and still is, better than jason smith.

fact: andre smith was better than eugene monroe every year of his life until last year.

fact: andre smith was better than michael oher every year of his life until last year.

look, andre smith deservedly won the outland trophy in his junior season OVER guys like the aforementioned three. hes younger than j.smith and oher still, and only 3 months older than monroe who btw already has bad knees. hes always been fat, and always will be fat, but hes also proven to be a hell of a football player whilst maintaining status as pleasantly plump. you have to blame the bengals medical staff a fair amount for a) delaying his foot surgery after the season initially, as well as b) failing to monitor him closely enough to realize he was approaching the weight of a rhinoceros at 10times the body fat percentage despite the fact that the team had gone so far as to put a fat clause in his contract and that the injured body part was his foot, making it tough to, you know, do a lot of jogging. the fact the kid was mediocre playing without any training camp on a clearly still injured foot has to say something. the kids healthy finally, hes on the field, and after all paul alexander said the reason they drafted him was "because he was the best run blocker and he was the best pass blocker we saw on tape in college." as an alabama fan i too saw that for 3 years, let the kid have a chance to play, i promise he unseats roland (thank god too if that happens for carsons sake) and by the end of the year we'll be talking about what an asset we have at the RT spot. hes always going to be immature and fat, but lets calm down and let him show what hes good at: namely, football.

Andre is not a bust yet,Still can end up being a very good tackle and reason we took him over the others was because he was most dominate run blocker.

If they were looking for a LT ya one of the other two guys would have made sense but ANDRE WAS NEVER Thought of as a LT...It was always the Right...

------------------------------------------Bottom line: the 2009 draft came loaded with awesome first round talents at the exact position we needed and we still have nothing to show for it. Disaster.--------------------------------

Well Perk Is we Got Plenty of Steals in that draft and other 1st rnd talents

-Rey Maualuga 1st rnd talent
-Michael Johnson- 1st rnd talent hell looking like top 10 atm
-Coffman Well he hasn't exploded yet he was a great value because if it wasn't for his injury he would been a early 2nd rnd pick

Both Peter King and Andre Smith have big boobs. And neither is very good at what they do.

@Reydey and @tide182 -

1. Smith may end up being good but it doesn't change the fact his first two years may be worthless. That happens to matter as we have a nice window to win right now before a potential lockout. Who knows what our chances to win will look like after this year.

2. Just because they drafted well in later rounds doesn't excuse whiffing on this decision.

3. The things that made Smith a dangerous pick were the exact things that made the Bengals a bad spot for him. We like to play hardball on contracts, making a hold out likely, leading to him being away from camp and likely to work less. We also don't yet have the level of professionalism other organizations do, making it more likely his lazy tendencies wouldn't get corrected.

4. Why would we target a run blocking tackle when we need pass protection for Palmer? That's an argument not to take Smith.

We went after Smith because we switched to a run first offense, and he's a run blocking RT. Too early to panic boys, my guess is the guy starts opening day and has a good year, if he doesn't, because of performance or injury, then yes, he's a waste of space for going on two years, not till then though.

@sleepingwithbieniemy

1) hoollld on hold on. why are we automatically saying his first two years are worthless? his first year was worthless, basically, but i dont think anyone arguing in his defense is willing to concede his second year is going to be worthless. i think the whole point to the defense is that this year, his second year, will be anything but worthless and he will get a chance to prove why we drafted him at 3 in the first place. if hes worthless this season too obviously it all becomes somewhat moot and those of his defending him and the organizations decision to draft him are pretty much in the wrong.

3) you have to be fair here. while i agree that the things that made smith dangerous were things that made the bengals a tough spot for him, it is also true that there were things about oher that would have made him a bad fit for us himself. if you recall, the book on him in the sec was that he would be lazy/lack attention to detail ON the football field and there were questions, just like andre off the field, about whether those lapses in attention would multiply once he got paid. now using hindsight we may be able to see oher managed to use slipping to number 23 and being angry about his portrayal in the movie as motivation to improve on his temporary on-field lapses, but who's to say had we taken him at 3 we wouldnt have had issues there? you say we "don't have the level of professionalism...making it more likely...lazy tendencies wouldn't get corrected," well that goes for oher as well. further, smith killed himself by hiring that lunatic alvin keels (twice, no less, and who is currently doing his best to stunt revis' career as well) but at number 3 overall the bengals organization has to draft the best football player and not allow themselves to be backed into a corner because katie blackburn sucks at negotiating. not to mention, he had fired keels and was being represented by a normal agent when we drafted him who was saying all the right things about getting him into camp, it wasnt until he fired that guy and rehired keels that the storm clouds really started brewing. and even given all this, im not convinced smith still has a "wasted year" last season if he doesnt break his foot when he finally gets to camp. i understand his being fat had something to do with that, and im not trying to give him a free pass because he does have to put up or shut up this year, but to be fair he really had no chance to be productive last year only once he had broken his foot, not just after holding out. in my eyes, neither j.smith nor e.monroe was as good as smith or oher, so the bengals were choosing between those two. they took the kid with some off-field issues, but also the kid without any on-field concentration issues and the kid with better ability to, you know, block. they took the best guy they saw on tape, again, in paul alexanders own words.

4) i know this point was more directed to reydey than my response, but i feel like i should add that oher and smith were BOTH projected as superior run blocking talents to pass blocking talents, for one, and for two its not like smith had a reputation as a poor pass blocker either. the guy was playing in the best conference in america for a team that was number 1 for a significant portion of the season, dominated carlos dunlap et al int he sec title game, and gave up all of 1 sack and 6 pressures in 334 dropbacks his final season. lets not make revisionist history by contending that smith was never going to be capable of pass blocking at a high level.

I said "may be" not "will be", I respect that as of now he should end up playing significantly barring injury or whatever. Regardless, it'd be nice to have a legit 2nd year guy though for our hoped for playoff run now, instead of a hold out coming off an injury.

As for Oher, I'm just saying I don't know exactly why people questioned his intangibles so much. I don't know where that shit came from. He did not botch his pro day and combine like Smith. Also, the scouts we spoke with noted he might be the most gifted blocker of all the prospects and that he would be fine as a pass blocker. So I am not operating from the premise that it is clear cut that he was not as talented as Smith and that he was a run blocker too.

And, look, I'm not holding myself out as a scout. I have no fucking clue how Smith, Oher or Monroe really stacked up. Paul Alexander says Smith was best. So be it. And I agree that he probably is pretty awesome at pass protection too. But even if they did think Smith had the most talent, I just seemed to me like the most logical decision was a) pass on potential headcase/holdout disaster Smith, b) go with consensus Monroe or c) try to trade down and take Oher...even though you probably won't get great value for trading out of the 6th pick.

As for Keels, well, I believe there was reason to suspect he never intended to really switch agents. Just a ploy to make him look better.

SWB,
I agree with the Keels thing it was also discussed that he did that to improve his draft status- not that it would have mattered to the Bengals since they were so focused on him.

The problem I have with the whole thing is that they once again could have traded down and picked up some extra picks, and selected a similar talent for the RT spot. I won't go on my rant how the draft is a gamble, but we don't know if Oher falling to the 20's motivated him, or if he would have been fine at #3. You never know what is going through a guys head or how he is going to react to a certain situation which is the real tricky part.

I disagree with you about Monroe, I think it is best to stay away from a guy with bad knees. It can either turn into a Munoz or it can turn into a Jones and the guy can crap out on you at the worst time possible (2006-2007) and then get your QB killed in the process which then takes years to repair his screwed up mechanics- but I digress.

Once Smith makes it into the lineup this season he will be good. The frustration is that he should have come in day one ready to play. Rather then put the team through this crap.

SWB, you're starting to sound like a MB defender and mindless season ticket holder. King has a valid point, and if you remember the discussions leading up to the draft Lapham repeatedly said that the only players they were looking at were Smith and Oher. Monroe and Smith did not fit the system, they were not good run blockers or maulers as he refers to them. They were more athletic guys who fit in a zone blocking scheme. After Smith flaking out on the Bowl game, the combine and the entire draft process, how could any team make him the #6 pick? King knows his shit and if you look at that draft the reason Oher slipped is the same reason QBs slip, need. The Jags took Monroe since he fit their system better, outside of the AFC North not a lot of teams need guys like Smith and Oher. Lapham was high on Oher, but knew the team was in love with Smith so he definitely tried to spin it. There were obviously some negatives on Oher, like the fact that he had never read 'The Blindside.' It's a little weird to not read a book about you. Yet we've all seen this story before, if the team can make a bad pick they will.

The comments to this entry are closed.

MikeyBoy Brown Twitter Updates

    follow me on Twitter

    BetUs.com

    • Bet on USA's Favorite Pastime – Football Betting  at BetUS

    Bengals Futility - By The Numbers

    • 20 - Years since the Bengals have won a playoff game

      0 - Total number of playoff wins in Mike Brown's tenure as owner

      .359 - Bengals regular season winning percentage since Mike Brown took over as owner (115-206-1 in 20 seasons)

      29-34-1 - Record since 2005 playoff game vs Steelers

      6 - Seasons the Bengals have lost their first six games since 1991. No other team has more than two.

      0 - Teams North of Cincinnati without an indoor practice facility

      10 - Players arrested in a 14 month span from 2005-2006

      32 - Mike Brown's ranking, out of 32, of the "Best Owners in the NFL" by Michael Silver of Sports Illustrated in 2007

      458,000,000 - Amount, in dollars, that Hamilton County Taxpayers paid to build PBS

      2032 - Year that Hamilton County will have finally paid off its debt on the stadium deal

      3 - Total number of non-clerical employees employed in the Bengals scouting department, lowest in the league

      747,000,000 - Amount, in dollars, paid in free agency by the Bengals from 1994 - 2005, second worst of all 28 teams in existence for the duration, behind only Arizona

      118 – Ranking, out of 118 professional teams, of the “Worst Franchises” in professional sports, as ranked by ESPN the Magazine in 2003.

      97 – Ranking, out of 98 general managers in all four major sports with three or more years of experience, of Mike Brown’s performance as a GM, as ranked by Forbes in 2007.

    Enter your email address:

    Delivered by FeedBurner

    Categories

    Categories

    March 2013

    Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
              1 2
    3 4 5 6 7 8 9
    10 11 12 13 14 15 16
    17 18 19 20 21 22 23
    24 25 26 27 28 29 30
    31            
    Blog powered by Typepad