I wrote this about two weeks ago as people wanted some official clarification on what we thought about Mike Brown's "discount" purchases. I repeat the relevant passage assuming the PFT report on Pacman joining the Bengals is true:
Human nature is what it is. You will find pieces of shit in any profession. And those pieces of shit might have lots of talent at their job. All you can do is take calculated risks on these pieces of shit based on their risks and their rewards.
My problem with the Bengals is that they don't do any calculating. They just see a cheap piece of shit and drool. A low price does a lot to mitigate the downside, but not everything. How low would Pacman's price need to drop for you to be interested?
In case you can't tell from the tone, I meant that question about Pacman to be rhetorical. The league minimum doesn't go low enough to make Pacman a bargain for anyone.
I really haven't had a problem with the character thing until this possible signing. Most of the guys they've brought in with "pasts" have been only one or two instances (i.e. Tank Johnson, Matt Jones). But this guy, although has no actual prison time, is a shitstorm looking for a place to happen. Beyond that, what's his value to this team? They have two good punt returners in Shipley and Cosby and drafted Ghee and Trent the last two years. Say what you want about Trent, but i'd take him over Davey Jones' locker any day of the week as a #3 or #4 CB. Unless this is a Matt Jones typre of deal that makes him an absolute longshot to make the team, I just don't understand this. Does Mike Brown just crave media attention now? First TO, now this guy. Yeesh. I will say that I'm relatively happy that it looks like they'll sign Gibril Wilson though. He'd provide good depth and would be a solid rotational player at safety.
Posted by: TheCarlPickensClause | May 04, 2010 at 06:25 PM
Agreed - there are degrees of character issues and infractions. Most of the Bengals stuff in the past fell closer to the category of driving a boat drunk (who isn't drunk on a boat?) than 3 guys shot outside a club and one paralyzed. Pacman falls in the latter category.
He's been out of the league for over a year, we already have two great corners, we just drafted another corner for depth in the draft, we have serviceable punt returners on the squad, the team chemistry appeared good last year even with some formerly questionable character guys...there is just no need to rock the boat like this. Risk/reward just doesn't seem to be in our favor.
The math is simply Marv & Zimmer can handle him and Pacman can potentially allow Mike to retain two outstanding corners even if he only signs either JJ or Leon. What a fucking insult to Bengals fans if that's the case.
Posted by: Sleeping With Bieniemy | May 04, 2010 at 06:47 PM
Who cares? Were still being cracked at because of what happened in 2006...But who cares? If Jones can Come in and actually play good for us if not we cut him, if he gets in trouble we cut him if he is a douche to teammates we cut him....
Low risk High reward... In zimmer we trust baby I'm sure if Zimmer didn't want him he wouldn't be on the team.
Posted by: kaz | May 04, 2010 at 07:39 PM
He's going to have a hell of a time making the team unless he can play safety... "Do you hear that Randy? The shit-wolves are howling.
Posted by: Ryag | May 04, 2010 at 07:52 PM
This is a taking things a bit further than normal in the re-dump-tion theme of Bengal's free agency. Most have been drama-queens or a DUI or something. This guy is borderline Mike Vic...
...However. To echo Kaz, In Zimmer We Trust (can we have little orange plastic bracelets made with that on them?!). Also, Chick Ludwig, douchebag though he is, posted on his blog some noteworthy comments coming out of the Bengals mini-camp, and it seems Ghee is a bit "rawer" than originally thought, which limits depth at the position. Also, CPC brings up a wonderful point that I have been howling about at my local pub for years: the Bengals S.U.C.K. at punt and kick-off returns. We returned one for a touchdown this year, and it was the first time since the Clinton era we had done so.
I'm not saying I agree with the signing, I just understand it. Kaz is partly right; high reward... but we are putting a nuke in the locker room. If this guys starts to stink up the place, on or off the field, I'm really going to be interested to see how Zim and Marv handle him....
Posted by: comrade guttersnake | May 04, 2010 at 08:42 PM
kaz and comrade guttersnake:
Where is the high reward that you gentlemen speak of? Did you miss the Pacman era in Dallas? Not only did he look perfectly average there, but he's also been out of the league for over a year since then. Doesn't anyone in the locker room still have a phone number for Deltha O'Neal? Given the choice, I'd prefer Deltha over Pacman.
Posted by: Wyatt | May 04, 2010 at 09:54 PM
...just 'snake will be fine.
Anyway, @ Wyatt; I won't split hairs, but I'd give him above average. Not 'awesome', not 'great', but he can handle himself on the field. Also, we spent our first draft pick on a guy who hasn't played in a year either, and reports seem to indicate that he's rockin mini-camp.
I'm not comparing the character of Jermaine Gresham to Adam Jones because obviously, there is no question; only the situations. The Jets have had and are going to have the number 1# defense in the league by employing 3 CBs as a standard package in several defensive arrays, though mostly nickel and dime formations, I believe. I happen to think that Zim was thinking about putting together something similiar based our difficult schedule, but if Ghee isn't looking up to it, then the whole thing falls through... enter Pacman.
Again, I'm not saying I like this. I don't. But I think I get it. CB and FS is the hot item this off-season, and if Zimmer hedged his bet on Ghee, then the field is sparse at this point.
Still, I'm not worried... yet. Mini-camp and pre-season? If Jones sucks, Zimmer will cut him. ...
Posted by: comrade guttersnake | May 04, 2010 at 10:33 PM
Text message found on Mike Brown's cell phone:
"Y U h8t on me? I Mbrace my iner thug & U shud 2. I jus keepin it real boyz!"
Posted by: Major Payne | May 05, 2010 at 08:49 AM
'snake,
Fair enough - I just think the risks far outweigh the rewards for a guy who may have been slightly above-average a year ago, the last time he played in the league. Don't get me wrong - if Revis pulled a Donte Stallworth and got himself released, I'd advocate the Bengals snatching him up in an instant (if only because the Steelers and/or Ravens would if the Bengals didn't), but for a guy who was more hype than results in his pro career, I'd just as soon they pass.
Posted by: Wyatt | May 05, 2010 at 08:59 AM
Comrades,
I am fine with this pickup. If Pacman is better than Ghee and Morgan Trent in training camp, he deserves to be on the team to add quality depth to the secondary that we desperately need. If he sucks in camp and the preseason games they better cut him. He is no worse than Michael Vick, and look how teams drooled over him last year; the NFL could give a crap about character issues. If they did Goddell would have suspended Porter for assaulting Jones in Vegas. What did he get? Nothing- not even a slap on the wrist.
If both of the Jones suck in camp, they should get cut. This should be a good indication on where we are with the Mike & Marvin power struggle. If they suck and end up keeping them on the team, MB is in charge and Marvin is on his way out of town at the end of the season.
Posted by: blesterinski | May 05, 2010 at 09:08 AM
Guys, Adam has requested that we drop the "Pacman" moniker as part of his quest to turn over a new leaf and rehab his image. We should respect this young man's wishes and embrace him into the fold.
Posted by: JohnnyP | May 05, 2010 at 10:18 AM
Ah, who the fuck am I kidding? Keep making it rain Pac!
Posted by: JohnnyP | May 05, 2010 at 10:22 AM
Wyatt,
Couldn't your comments...
"Where is the high reward that you gentlemen speak of"
and
" I just think the risks far outweigh the rewards for a guy who may have been slightly above-average a year ago"
Also have fit when the Bengals made a move for Benson? Not saying the level of misbehavior is the same, but the risk reward could be right?
Posted by: WhoDeyFans | May 05, 2010 at 02:49 PM
WhoDeyFans,
I would say, based on their histories before coming to Cincinnati, that the first statement you questioned would certainly apply to Benson (regarding the high reward being in question); however, if Benson was even a serviceable running back, he would've been a worthwhile pick-up based solely on risk-reward, because, by the time he came to the Bengals, both of his boating-related charges had been dropped, meaning he had no worse of a criminal record than league poster boy Tom Brady. And, more to the point, in being merely average, Benson would've improved a team whose starting running back had never played a full season without injury and had already given up multiple fumbles on what should've been scoring drives. Granted, there was still the issue of Benson apparently being hard to get along with in the locker room, but neither you nor I were members of those Bears teams to make that call accurately. On the other hand, Adam Jones has a well-documented history of being unable to control himself off the field and somehow manages to make the worst of a good situation (most notably getting into a fight with one of his Jerry Jones-appointed babysitters in Dallas), so, when compared to Cedric Benson, Adam Jones' risk is significantly higher, at least in my opinion. Also, Benson came in with an almost-ideal situation for him - from day 1, he was playing for a starting position, which kept him hungry and motivated to become the first-string running back, whereas Pacman is playing for the nickel corner spot. That, too, needs to be factored into their respective risk-reward analyses - I'd be more willing to take a flier on a first-string running back than a third-string quarterback without all the other legal issues involved.
Again, though, this is just my opinion - I wasn't trying to say kaz and 'snake were wrong, I was just curious as to why they believed the potential reward justified the almost-guaranteed-to-come-into-play risk.
Posted by: Wyatt | May 06, 2010 at 11:46 PM
That should be "third-string cornerback" in the last sentence of my first paragraph.
It's time for bed...
Posted by: Wyatt | May 06, 2010 at 11:48 PM
I am going to get Adam "Pacman" Jones and Matt "Crackman" Jones mixed up easily.
Posted by: Rich | May 10, 2010 at 01:23 PM
Hey, you guys might not be super happy about the Pacman Jones signing but... Check out this article on Bengals.com (direct quote from Pacman not some dumb hob spin)
http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Lewis-confident-in-Jones/a5adae1d-932f-4a86-8396-d1408c8ae755
The 5th stanza paragraph thing says “I still think I have the skill set that made me a high draft choice. I know I have a ton, a ton of work to do. It would be a dream come true to come in here and help the Bengals in any way I can and also help them win the championship. Like I said, I know I have a ton of work to do. To gain your guys’ trust, it’s not going to come overnight. It’s going to take time"
Did you see that? Pacman is talking championship guys, thats his ultimate goal, not being competative. You all are always complaining about how the focus is never on the superbowl... well, here you go
Posted by: Kyle | May 13, 2010 at 01:56 PM