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Who Dey Revolution Manifesto

  • Preamble

    IN THIS TIME of perpetual Cincinnati Bengals incompetence and futility, with zero playoff wins in the nineteen seasons since the WhoDeyRevolution Godfather, Paul Brown, passed away in 1991 and handed the team to his fortunate son, the Despot, Mike Brown;

    Introduction

    WE, the members of the Who Dey Revolution, in our fervent dedication to the Cincinnati Bengals and fanatical desire to transform our hometown team into perpetual Super Bowl contenders, call for a popular revolution of fans to demand comprehensive reform to the managerial decisions and approach of Cincinnati Bengals ownership, management, staff and players, and hereby call for the adoption of the following Who Dey Revolution Manifesto:

    Manifesto Demands

    THAT the Mike Brown, Katie Blackburn, Marvin Lewis, along with every other member of the Bengals management, staff and personnel, state publicly to all Bengals fans, “I will do everything in my power to help the Cincinnati Bengals win a Super Bowl;”

    THAT Mike Brown will hire a general manager, drastically expand the scouting department and relinquish all control of player personnel;

    THAT all training, rehabilitation and medical facilities are considered best-in-class compared to other NFL teams;

    THAT the management fill the team only with players who fit the system, both mentally and physically, and are not reluctant to makes changes to player personnel when needed, regardless of cost or loyalty concerns;

    THAT offensive and defensive line depth is considered the top priority for all player personnel decisions;

    THAT all decisions made by ownership, management, staff and players, both on and off the field, are judged only by this criterion: “Does this help the Cincinnati Bengals win a Super Bowl?”

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« Definitely not how I would have played Round 1... | Main | Ross Tucker Secretly Owns Denny's Stock; Guilty of Insider Trading »

April 23, 2010

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I swear i think i keep repeating myself on this but why oh why do people want Dez Bryant. His agent is the same agent that was behind the Crabtree fiasco last year. Can you just imagine what would happen with him and MB in a room. We'd be lucky if Bryant took the field before Chad retired, lol. Anyway i totaly disagree with the idea of picking Bryant, it seems like the Bengals are trying to go away from the "me first" diva players and while Bryant is very talented he is a diva style player. Also name the last 1st round WR that has done anything in the past 5 years. Detroit is a great example of wasted 1st round WR's. I'll have to check out the rest of the post but i got stuck right here because of Bryant

With Pouncey off the board I'd either have drafted Dez Bryant or picked a good defensive back or traded out of the first round like the Ravens did.

Instead the Bengals grabbed an injury prone tight end and will put him in the offense run by a guy who doesn't know how to use a tight end.

Great draft by the Jets -- building a defense the way I think you should which is loading up with cover cornerbacks. They may threaten the all-time record for fewest points allowed.

I knew there'd be pissing and moaning about Gresham. Iupati was gone. Pouncey was gone. Thomas was gone. Mays didn't even go In the first. Bryant was passed on 23 times, sometimes twice by the same team. Gresham was the safest and most logical pick, given the need and who was left. You wanted Jerry Highes? The guy went like ten spots later and is a 3-4 outside backer. Last time I checked, the bengals don't run a 3-4 (and don't give me the "Zimmer runs it sometimes", crap--your first rounder should be a starter, not a role player like Frostee Rucker). Defense wasn't the problem with this team, offense was. This team has long ignored the importance of the TE and safety positions. It's time to address them. You wanted a third WR for Carson? You basically got one who's 6'5 but can also block. If the Bengals had picked Dez, the Patriots would have jumped all over Gresham, and didn't they pass on Dez also? It's a good pick. If they grab a good safety and guard in tonight 2nd and 3rd rounds, they'll be in good shape for 2010.

I don't mind the pick. The talking heads seem to think it was a pretty good pick, and people around this town have been complaining about tight ends since 1904. Injuries scare me, but I think at 21 you can afford to take some chances.

My preference would have been to trade. I think Denver or Dallas would have given what they gave up to move to the spots they did. Bengals could have slid back 5 spots or whatever it was and picked up an additional 2nd, 3rd or 4th and probably still gotten a player they loved. But when was the last time this organization got creative with their draft picks?

@@@@Instead the Bengals grabbed an injury prone tight end and will put him in the offense run by a guy who doesn't know how to use a tight end.


Are you stupid? Injury Prone? He had one major Injury in highschool and then he pretty much just had his knee cleaned out his senior year and played it safe... it's not like he blew out his same ACl twice...

Not only that but forget Munoz had bad knees? where chris perry had injury history?

This feels a lot like the Keith Rivers pick a couple of years ago... not the position I would have preferred, but I can't really dislike the pick.

If Gresham proves to be effective, look for Himes 'Smiling Submarine' Ward to try to sweep his leg.

To suggest the Bengals should have drafted Dez Bryant is ridiculous. Don't get me wrong I think Bryant is going to be a stud, but the Bengals would essentially be picking him for 2011.

Do you think Bryant, a receiver who thought he should go in the top ten, and his agent would be taking any of KB's lowball offers? There is no way he would be signed by the start of the season and our window is closing. You need a player that can contribute immediately.

And Gresham is going to be the next Antonio Gates/ Vernon Davis impact TE. If he came out in the 2009 draft he would have been a top ten pick.

Wow, SWB, did someone not make a fresh pot today?

"Every mock draft had us taking him thus finally proving what we all suspected: even your most pedestrian sports writer with only a passing knowledge of the Bengals could, in his spare time, draft for the Bengals and produce the same result."

You could look at the other side and say, man, this year the Bengals need was so obvious that everyone knew what we needed. I agree, Gresham was not at the top of my list either, but if you think back to last season and re-read some of the after game reactions, people were pretty upset with the tight end play. Who on the Bengals roster is going to change that unless they draft someone.

Maybe they could have waited until later in the draft but they had the opportunity to get the best tight end in the draft this year. If he contributes it is an awesome pick.

Last year a third round pick for a receiving TE, this year a first round pick for a receiving TE who can also
start at a Three point Stance, WOW.

From 03 through 08 the bengals were considered a throwing team that likes to run too so, the used reggie kelly at TE to block for the run not catch passes.

Now, they have decided to be a physical run team and take in two(pass catching)projects to convert to run blocking.

They could have traded down, got more picks, and still sighned gresham by the end of the first round.

I have to laugh when I visit other NFL team websites and they list 10, 13, 16 people in their personnel/scouting departments and then I look at the bengals where they list more people in the tickkets department than player personnel.

I heard the real bengals team scout is a book that all teams receive each year with player stats/information listed. It's to bad all other teams don't see the value in the black and white printed book over real live "expensive" personal touch scouting

5 and 11 in 2011

And the sold out streak ends in 2011

How many times did I say it? D-line, and if not that, O-line.

MFB, take a lesson from the Colts. They've got two sack machines in Freeney and Mathis, so what did they take first? A DE! YOU CANNOT HAVE TOO MUCH LINE DEPTH!!!!

I don't hate the pick of Gresham, but he had better end up being one of the better TE's in the game... and soon. If he can make Steeler and Raven fans curse his name as often and with the same venom that I've had cursing the names of Heath Miller and Todd Heap, then he will have earned the first round pick.

I have no objections with the pick. He'll give Palmer an extra target..if Brat can figure out how. I just get so upset, because this is our time to turn it up a notch. We are division champs and have a chance to move up much farther this season. But with MB and Bratwurst running things, the creativity with free agency, draft picks, and playcalling is lost.
In those critical division matchups, where we match up so well with Pit and Bal, we need that creativity on playcalling to assist us get the edge. The dead energy from our staff is our opportunity cost for being a Bengal fan. Who Dey!!

I personally feel Gresham is a win-win pick for this franchise. Best player at his position. Hard-worker. Team First attitude. Size. Speed. Finesse. Lets support this pick and see what he can give us this year. He is definitely someone we have never had in the past...

...and I dont mean to beat a dead horse, but Playmaking WR's will be around more often then none ala; Roddy White, Brandon Marshall (3rd rd pick), Crabtree, Vincent Jax (3rd round pick), DeSean Jackson (2nd Round Pick), Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson... Shit there is a big time WR year after year!

let´s beat the shit out of the dead horse because repetition is the only way some clowns learn -

1. we needed a tight end on offense, gresham is the consensus best. he is better than the patriots moved back to take - which should make it clear for you - if we didn´t take him, the patriots would have. (and i really don´t support the claim that brat doesn't know what to do with a t.e. - when has he ever had one with this skill set? - and so what if we have chase too - for those of you who have selective literacy, gresham can block - with him and chase and reggie for a year it is the instant improvement to the one area that absolutely screws our offense)

2. for those of you advocating that we take dez because he would be a long term solution to chad, and then turn around and say our first pick has to help us now - your hipocracy would be bigger if you were one of the porkers suggesting we take a tackle to play every 5th play on d. or a o-lineman that would be mixing up the unit again and thinking that´s what´s going to put us over the top. well actually the best hipocracy would be if you joined the clowns saying trade back and get some decent talent that may or may not have an immediate impact which apparently our picks need to have now while the ¨window is open¨ - wtf!

3. wr´s are a dime a dozen and often worth about a plug nickel that high. shit, chad, t.j. and our own bryant are quality examples of why we don´t need to fool around with that 1st round ¨talent¨.

gresham gives us the best chance to upgrade immediately what was dragging us down as DIVISION CHAMPS! we have a good squad. it wasn´t luck. even if we don´t do as well or make the playoffs this year, we have a good squad. we will compete beyond mb´s definition of competitiveness is.

and to update - with mays, price, and kindle gone, i don´t think i would have gone with the fat kid from alabama. i had hoped we would have drafted dunlap with our comp. pick in 3 or in the 4th (figured he´d last that long, but who knows), and drafted the asamoan (can´t beat that fucking name) guard in the 2nd, but for those who would prefer to give zimmer a toy - here you go. REDEMPTION!

For all of you expecting Gresham to start this year and using that as the argument for not drafting Bryant, I've got two words for you:

Chase. Coffman.

Gresham's not a better blocker than Coffman, and it's arguable that he's a better receiver. Read the scouting reports where it says that he lacks the motivation to maintain a block and that he isn't a very good blocker at first contact anyway. Also, that he runs sloppy routes but most of the time is able to make up for that with his athleticism. Now, taken out of context, that's certainly not the end of the world, but think back to Hard Knocks and tell me that Jay Hayes is going to let him on the field. So, a tight end that won't be properly utilized by one-dimensional Bratkowski and probably won't see the field this season anyway? Or, a top-rated wide receiver who might take some of the heat off of the Bengals' aging star wide receiver until he invariably replaces said star?

Now, don't get me wrong, I didn't want the Bengals to draft either Gresham or Bryant; however, don't use arguments that are very likely to be fallacies to make your point.

Me?

I'm trying to be optimistic here. Thinking about getting a t-shirt made up that says, "The Bengals have the smallest/most incompetent scouting department in the NFL" on the front, and "But they weren't even dumb enough to take Tim Tebow in the first round, PRAISE JEEBUS!"

Yeah, my hatred for that turd far outstrips anything else that happened last night, and the fact that moronic Chick was proven wrong was simply icing on the cake.

I'm firmly in the votasi/CPC/WhoDeyFans camp on this one... not just because I agree with them, but because their arguments make sense.

The negativity about a great pick within these posts always concludes with something like, "I'm not saying Gresham is a bad pick but...." But what?! Great pick, end of story. Best pick at our point in the draft, yes? Fills a major need on our team with the debatable missing link in our offense, yes? To shut up and enjoy a great pick doesn't mean that you're now firmly in the sway of Mike Brown and that you're less of a comrade. Wishing we had drafted Dez because he can be trained when in the same breath you say we want to win now doesn't earn you points, you just sound like a hypocrite. And saying that this guy doesn't have the potential to be the best tight end we've had in over a decade doesn't make you Mel Kiper Jr; it just makes you a pessimistic ass in stripes.

Let me try to put a little 'snake-spin on this... I agree that this is an obvious pick that addresses an obvious need, which I also agree 'could' be interpreted as, well, obvious. What is not obvious was briefly alluded to somewhere in this sea of recent posts; the impact that it had on New England and Baltimore. Considering that Balt and NE went into a trade-tailspin as soon as Gresham went off the board, I think that the Bengals had to anticipate what drafting him would do not just for their organization but do to two organizations that make up three games next season, two in the AFC North.

I don't know about you, but from this perspective, I'd rather have Cincinnati dictating draft calls rather than reacting to them. As for the rest of the draft, we can go back to shitting on the front office after it’s all said and done. The Bengals just drafted Carlos Dunlap so there is that defensive step up and Shipley is your wide receiver protégé.

Like I said before... I ain't hatin'.

For those bitching about this team not trying to trade up, it's been reported the Bengals and 3 other teams tried to trade up to the 33rd pick.

The Bengals always "try" though, don't they? We "tried" to trade for Shaun Rogers. We "tried" to get a deal done quickly with Hippopotasmith. Sooner or later you have to look at the effort and reasonably-expected response to the Bengals' "tries" at making moves that are savvy. And once you do that you realize that in a way, they're not actually trying at all.

I still don't get the Gresham pick, why not get Scheffler or Dustin Keller before the draft if TE was such a concern? With those two guys they not only upgrade the position, but unlike Gresham, they can contribute day one. You then have the opportunity to move down or take Thomas from GT to groom him to eventually replace Chad. I hope I am work, and that it turns out well. You guys supporting it better face up if it blows up in our face, but I hope it doesn't.

I do like the rest of their draft so far. For me the DE was the wild-card spot b/c it depended on how confident they were about Odom's return. Picking Dunlap settles that issue. At 6-6, 280 He can play DE on 1st and 2nd down and then potentially move inside on 3rd to allow our other freak, Johnson, to rush the passer from the DE spot. This could be fun to watch this year.

Shipley was one of my pre-draft favorites, and I think he could become a great slot receiver for us. He seems like he could be a Brian Brennen/ Dwight Clark type guy who can catch everything including crabs from a ten dollar hooker. Selecting a CB with their fourth pick gets much needed depth at the CB position. Ghee should be able to come in and play nickle or dime and upgrades the position.

I just can't understand why they failed to ignore their two biggest needs so far: guard and safety. They must have a lot of faith in Livings's development, similar to Cook last year. If so I am ok with that, but I just hope we get to see Palmer confident in the pocket again. If they fail to provide that we are not going far in the playoffs.

Not hypocrite to say I prefer Dez Bryant to Gresham even though I want help now. They are both basically pass catchers, I am not sure how much more one would help vs the other next year. But I do know Chad is aging and maybe Dez is a long term solution. Him and Gresham fill similar rolls but Dez potentially adds an upside bonus of replacing our 1.

Anyway, the point is, it was a great year to draft the best pro ready talent available. And we drafted for need in the first round. End of story. It's bad strategy.

you are completely missing it -

you say you want help now.

gresham will play this season and produce (and replace not only our 1, but our 2, 3, 4, and 5 as well).

where would dez be on the depth chart this year? yeah, later he might be sweet, but we just paid a ton of money to the other bryant after paying a ton of money to lavs, and we still have chad (who isn't going out to pasture anytime soon). there's zero way you can tell me that dez would have a bigger impact THIS YEAR ON THIS TEAM than gresham will.

calm your little baby balls about drafting for need. we got need and pro talent.

and who gives a f@ck if it doesn't work out. anyone can get injured anytime. and the draft is so much worse than a crap shoot (best odds at a casino, btw's). as your own post pointed out recently, with marvin we are making better decisions, and in the draft, that's all you can ask for. (and along those lines - your post about the ravens first round selections was a good one - also proved that first round wr's are a fucking joke most of the time, even for clubs with proven scouting talent...)

as a side bar - what about those two "specialists" listed specifically as 'long snapper' and the 5'5'' 'kick returner' from hell. is there a roster spot for somebody like that little man, just until he pops a couple of td'ers and then dies on the field. i often have a hard time deciding which is more exciting, kick return, or pick-6...would love to see the little guy do one or even both maybe (tom nelson, watch out for your cornhole, bud).

oh yeah...and while shipley was the better choice, i get all sentimental about mardy ball...and what i don't want is for him to go somewhere in the division and hose us. the guy loves cincy - can we at least let him hang out with j.b.?

...well look at that shit - for all those who thought that gresham would have been there in the 2nd - i present the deperation of both bmore and the pats - once we took the only TE that mattered, they were forced to trade back and take an "equal" player that they were so sure was "equal" to gresham that they both went ahead and spent another pick each on a TE just to make sure we didn't snatch them up later i guess. and these are the squads we're supposed to be emulating...

we got the best around for the moment and all is tbd. can't blame MARVIN (not MB) here.

Votasi,

Yes we filled a need with Gresham, but they easily could have filled that need by picking up Keller or Scheffler- a less risky move and one that would have provided guys that can produce day one. They then could have used their number one (or traded it to move down) to fill one of their other three needs: Guard, Safety, and DE.

Most likely Gresham is not catching 25+ passes this year since he needs to adjust to the pro game. So in my mind I don't see him helping us get back to the playoffs this season. I think they will pick up Kelly and maybe Foschi for training camp. Kelly may be able to start one more year so that would allow Gresham to develop as the no. 2.

As I stated previously, I felt they needed to draft a player in a spot (OG, DE, Safety) that could produce day one and pick up guys in FA or trades at spots that take more time to develop (WR & TE) to get us over the tipping point- I don't believe they accomplished that, but I hope I turn out to be wrong.

So what we are getting with this draft are two of the four major holes filled (DE & TE), but to me Guard was just as important. I just hope Nate Livings has improved his game this offseason b/c we are now counting on him to anchor the LG spot this season.

I disagree w/ SWB that they should have selected Bryant. The guy is an uber turd, and I am glad they passed on him. Fantastic talent, yes, but again he would take at least a year to produce so he would not help us that much this year. I would have been happier if they would have invested their pick in grooming Thomas (who went after Gresham) to eventually replace Chad rather than the turd. Plus I think they may still pursue TO after the draft. If they can get him for less than the $5 mil he is asking for then they would be stacked at WR: Chad, Bryant, w/ TO in the slot and Shipley, Caldwell or Cosby on the bench would be nice.

Their picks following round 1 were fantastic, and it will be interesting to see what they do today.

The Patriots grabbed Hernandez in the FOURTH round. As their second TE in the draft. Hernandez was rated 2nd or 3rd best TE by many. Would have much rather had Dez and Hernandez than gresham and Shipley.

if the other tight ends were so sweet, why did the two other teams seeking tight ends take 2 each this draft? i'd say the bengals are pretty much equal with strategy and as far as college history and pro-potential goes (with is all we have to go on), i'd say the bengals 2 selections of chase and gresham are better than each pats and bmore pair.

and to further the debate - all you who are advocating all this wr nonsense (take dez, keep shipley, sign t.o...how many roster spots does the wr corps take up and how many actually dress on gameday? and how much money are you willing to tie up in that position. with chad and our own bryant, does taking a twat like dez with his agent really sound like the way to spend what little mb will cough up for three guys at one position? no. it doesn't.

chad's around and will be good for more than another year or two.

yet to be seen, but i have a positive outlook on our bryant.

for what t.o. is going to demand, i'd just as soon see if the minimum deal we gave jones will work out just the same for a pinch.

with shipley in the fold (bwhahaha), i'm curious what caldwell's status will be. and i like q. he was tough on special teams and when asked late in the year, he stepped up on some throws over the middle and carson seemed comfortable going to him. simpson...he gone. (i do always like caldwell's attitude when interviewed - watching tape, wants to be like t.j...again, just don't want him cut and going in division and selling our shit out..)

at best 5 wr's will be active any given sunday:

chaddy (1)
bryant (2)
jones (vertical threat, big red zone target)
caldwell (slot this year, then maybe gone)
q (for special teams, if caldwell takes a shit)

shipley (on squad but inactive first year, takes over for caldwell or a less fast alternative to an underwhelming jones next year)

there's 5 wides with hopefully improved (over coles) or replaced (slim) abilities

and then we get the value of hopefully our real blocking TE in kelley (helps the run game), an expected (which is all we can ask for at this point) LEGIT threat at TE with gresham, and another split/slot weapon in chase (don't care if he didn't find the field last year - people come back from injuries and a year of practice/watching counts for something - not just a f.o.b. rookie)...how can anyone not be at least a little excited and recognize the great chance for improvement in the passing game/offense in general over last year?

and for those wanting to trade for the veteran TE's - why didn't bmore or the pats do that? and btw's we would have had to give up a pick to get that done, so it negates any bonus pick we would be getting by not having to select a TE (or it's a wash if we supposedly could have traded down and got one of the FOUR TE's neither new england or baltimore were completely comfortable with!)

now i'm rambling, but i am down with chad and bryant being solid vertical diabolically sweet professional treats on the outside and then having big fast targets in jones and gresham to take the heat off, and then having legit underneath threats in caldwell, q, chase, and possibly shipley next year. it's a good problem to have like when we had all the receivers (forget the te's) back in '05.

oh yeah, and behold a saw a rider on a pale horse and his name was leonard out of the backfield...

WHO the f@ck DEY!

And its done. We all wanted Iupati... and we got his partner in crime, OG Reggie Stephens. 336 lbs, 6'4", rated extremely high by Sports Illustrated and Mel Kiper Jr. Boom.

The only confusion I about this draft is where is our safety?! I agree, we are stacked at WR. You add TO and I'm almost thinking overkill. There were a metric fuck-ton of safeties and we didn't get a single one?! I'm done with the case of The WDR verses Dez because we got receivers... I wonder if this was just the Bengals dropping the ball (no pun intended and wholly possible as well) or does Zimmer have something else up his sleeve.... Dunno.

Once teams start resigning picks, and cutting veterans, there a chance we can pick up a proven safety there. Also, Alan Faneca has just been cut by the Jets. It'd be mighty sweet if he'd come to town for a reasonable deal to get revenge on Pittsburgh for letting him walk while giving almost the same amount of money to garbage man Tra Essix, or whatever crappy linemen they signed.

Note for SWB: you misspelled "forgo" in the original post here. I might not have noticed had you not, you know, underlined it.

This draft upset me.


Yahoo!Sports thinks the Bengals have the second best set of draft picks this year:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/The-best-and-worst-of-the-2010-draft?urn=nfl,236463

Hofbrau--

ESPN also said that the bengals were one of three winners of the draft this year. Two solid drafts back-to-back. I'm sure the 'gloids here will find complaints. If I hear character shit again, I'll punch a baby. They always pick mental midgets--we know this. Get over it. Everyone bitched about Bernard Scott last year an the guy was pretty damn good. Guaranteed Briscoe makes the team and is solid. They'll get rid of Matt Jones and Simpson and keep Chad, AB, Caldwell, Shipley, Briscoe and Quan.
And, for all the Gresham haters, I re-watched the round 1 telecast and Mayock loves Gresham and calls him "a potential all-around tight end". Boom.


Exerpt from SI's Draft analysis:

"Tight end was the one position the Bengals simply had to upgrade in this draft and they do it by selecting the clear-cut best player at that position in Gresham. If Gresham had come out a year ago or hadn't torn his ACL this previous season, he would have been a top 10 pick. The fact that the Bengals took Gresham over Dez Bryant speaks volumes about how they feel about the former Oklahoma Sooner."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2010/draft/tracker/draft_analysis/1.html

He's big and tall, but:

* will he be fast and agile, i.e. consistently?

* will he be able to get under guys when he needs to,
i.e. with blocking?

Hopefully the bengals can help him to furthur both develop his talent and complement his skill set, especially in these areas.

SI says he's the best TE in the draft, and rated him @ 2.95

Hofbraunow:

Did you read the player analysis for Gresham or just the pick analysis? Here's the negative section of the player analysis, which I brought up about 20 posts ago but no one bothered to attempt to refute or discuss:

"Displays minimal blocking strength and gets pushed back into the pocket. Displays marginal blocking intensity. Loses his focus, concentration, and unnecessarily lets the pass get inside him or drops some catchable throws."

So...he can't block and drops catchable throws, but he's super athletic? We should've just kept Dan Coats and drafted a safety. (That last sentence was sarcasm.) In all seriousness, unless he learns to block in the next three months, he's not going to see the field his rookie year either. Too bad the Bengals couldn't get Hard Knocks again this year, so we could hear Jay Hayes saying "Jermaine" a thousand times like he did "Chase" last year.

What's the over/under on when Hobs pens together a Jermaine "Old School" Gresham article?


Wyatt:

Yeah, I read the entire SI analysis on Gresham, that's why I commented that I hope the Bengals can furthur develop him (blocking, speed/agility, etc. )...

I like the gresham pick OK, but I don't like hearing about dropping catchable passes...saw enough of that from our 'star' last season...

SI has also called the Dez Bryant pick (by Dallas) the "Riskiest Pick"

@ Wyatt -

As far as analytics go, most experts have called Jermaine Gresham the best "all around TE" in this year’s draft (I haven't found one that hasn't). Maybe he's more of a passing TE than a blocking TE, but he can block, has got great size and is a major passing threat. We've tried it the other way around and it really hasn't worked out so well.

Now, I watched every minute of the draft and had two different full coverage sites up the whole time (I am that lame, the draft is like Christmas to me). What I saw was that every TE drafted from round 2 to round 4 was noted from at least two of my three sources as "not a great blocking TE"... with the exception of Gronkowski who was considered to have decent blocking ability (same as Gresham) has had a major back injury. Dickson, Moeaki, J.Graham... all third rounders with glaring blocking issues. Hernandez, Pitta, G.Graham, Harbor - all fourth round TEs; great receivers who all got pushed around by defenders all semester long.

Only in the fifth round did blockers start to get picked. Hoomanawanui was the only TE in the fifth round was considered to be a better blocker than Gresham, he was slow as shit in the combine and Coats is probably a better receiver, which isn't saying much. Quarless was also a fifth round blocking TE, but he is vanilla everywhere else with a touch of off-field-trouble on the side. Eldridge was also somewhat of blocker, but iffy from game to game and was horrible as a receiver.

I guess my question is this: If not Jermaine Gresham then who? And more importantly why? We all agree that we needed a tight end, yes? Would you rather have a safety with our first pick and Grondowski? I wouldn't have minded that either, but it’s not a sure-fire thing there either with his injuries. Also, who is to say that Grondowski would have still been there? Don't forget about the mad trading window that happened after we took Gresham. After Jermaine and Rob, then you're really getting into TEs that don't block at all and have less of a receiving roll than either. That or big dumb blockers, and we already have one of those.

We have tried the blocking/non-recieving TE; it sucked. Debatably, it's what's holding back Carson. We haven't had a TE like Greshman, well, ever in recent memory. We think did better than good in the draft, and every major sports mind (except our collective one) seems to think so as well. While there is always room for improvement, I think this year's draft picks were bold, different, and might get us out of the run-run-pass-punt offense. As far as I'm concerned; Change is Revolutionary. WDR!!!

Just a thought... The NFL is clearly turning into a passing league and offenses are leaning much more on spread formations... Gresham clearly has the skill set and ability to have a much needed impact on this team. And Please dont bring up Brat's bull shit playcalling we know hes not the most creative O-Coordinator but like some of u said, the Bengals have never had a TE with this ability before...

2 productive drafts back-to-back! Zimmer now has some toys to work with in: Ghee & Dunlap who both will contribute next year mightily IMO. & Offensively we draft 3 pass catchers who give Carson 3 more options on 3rd Down and in the redzone. just saying This could be a special year despite Mike Brown's in-competencies.

The 600 pound gorilla in the room that everyone is ignoring is that the team did not upgrade a key spot on offense: LG. We can give Palmer all the weapons he wants, but if we continue to get pressure from the middle of the line; it is all worth squat. Palmer is not comfortable in the pocket, and his mechanics are messed up because of it. He forces throws on a regular basis, which causes them to be off target or not when the WRs are expecting the ball. If Livings has not developed, or they don't fill this need before training camp; they are only masking the symptoms and not fixing the disease.

Other than this issue, I think they had a great draft to followup last years success. They definately have a plan in place in lieu of the random selection of guys with shitty names in the 90's. I just hope this omission doesn't sink their potential at a playoff run, or Palmers rehabilitation. Vegas odds were 15:1 for the Bengals to win the AFC championship, had they picked the guard I would have placed a bet. But I think I am going pass on that now.

@ blester01 -

They did. Reggie Stephens. He's not a six-hundred pound gorilla, but he's a strong 340 lbs. He's not Iupati, but he's a three-year starter who has played LG and RG. Definately an upgrade from Livings or at the very least a mix-and-match from down-to-down. Personally, this is quietly one of the best picks that the Bengals got away with. A very solid upgrade and a born pass-protector. He went late because he blocks the pass rush in place, but not so good at moving the defensive line and creating lanes for running backs. Protecting Carson... I think that's what we wanted, right?

Gutter, if he gets the job done so be it. If I remember correctly, Hayes was quoted saying that Stephens was going to play RG. Reading between the lines, develop him to replace Williams.

Similar to last year, the O-line is now the big question mark. The two tackles and center spots are now set. I would feel a hell of a lot better if we had one of the top three guys at LG. It will be interesting to see how this plays out leading up to training camp and if they make any more moves.

If you were Marvin what would be your next step?

I think we are going to see them extend contracts, and maybe pick up one or two more guys. Now that they drafted Shipley and Briscoe, I don't see them flirting with TO anymore.

"They could have traded down, got more picks, and still sighned gresham by the end of the first round."

Sorry, there is no way Gresham would've been there after New England and Baltimore selected in round 1. Both would have grabbed Bresham in a heartbeat. Gotta support the Bengals pick here @ 21. Not saying they couldn't have gotten another TE in the draft by trading down, just not Gresham.

@ blester01

I do agree, the o-line is the question mark. I too would have liked to have seen someone (anyone) show up a bit earlier than seventh round for the line. The only pick that raised my eyebrows was Otis Hudson. I heard he might be used to up Carson's pass protection. He's a huge gamble, I think...

If I were Marvin, I'd be looking to address the offensive line. If I were Zimmer, I'd be trying to figure out the secondary without any new safety blood, which is just as important, I think. And you're right, if I was TO, I'd be looking for work at Macy's.

What do you know about Otis Hudson?

Gutter, according to the Enquirer, it is Hudson that is projected to play behind Williams next year, not Stephens. Stephens may back up the tackle spots if he makes the team.

If I am Marvin, I need to be sure Livings is the man, otherwise I'd be looking for a way to improve the spot ASAP. The line is on the cusp of being dominate again, something we have not seen since 2005. The more dominate the line, the more likely we make a push for the playoffs again. It would be a shame if our weakness is the LG spot that could have been easily upgraded in the draft.

I think they will sign Kelly- they have to get a blocking TE so they can develop Gresham. After that I don't know who else is out there right now.

I am going to love the WR competition in training camp. Jones is going to have to work his ass off to make the team with Shipley, Briscoe, Caldwell, & Cosby fighting for the three spots.

The defense should be better with new bodies for Zimmer. It is a great feeling to finally have confidence that we have a coach that can develop talent, or get the most out of the player by putting him in the right scheme. I don't think even LeBeu was capable of this.

I agree. Completely. Safety?

They may pick up a safety, but I doubt it will be a starter. If anything they may improve their depth. The safety position can be improved just from the quality of the pass rush, and if they did that this weekend we may be ok with the safeties we have on the roster. It looks like they punted on their need for a future starter at safety until next year's draft.

Overall, I like their draft; I just don't think it pushed them into the contender ring for the 2010 season. I may still put money on them to win the AFC Championship since it is such a good return if you hit it.

2011 is looking good for them to make a legit run if this year's picks pan out, but of course there may not even be a 2011 season...

Check out Joe Reedy's latest chat transcript.

He actually indicated the Bengals are *considering* a practice bubble. Last year was a nightmare having to drive the team to wall to wall soccer I can't believe they haven't built one out there already.

Comment at 12:30


http://cincinnati.com/blogs/bengals/2010/05/03/bengals-chat-with-joe-reedy-2/

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    Bengals Futility - By The Numbers

    • 20 - Years since the Bengals have won a playoff game

      0 - Total number of playoff wins in Mike Brown's tenure as owner

      .359 - Bengals regular season winning percentage since Mike Brown took over as owner (115-206-1 in 20 seasons)

      29-34-1 - Record since 2005 playoff game vs Steelers

      6 - Seasons the Bengals have lost their first six games since 1991. No other team has more than two.

      0 - Teams North of Cincinnati without an indoor practice facility

      10 - Players arrested in a 14 month span from 2005-2006

      32 - Mike Brown's ranking, out of 32, of the "Best Owners in the NFL" by Michael Silver of Sports Illustrated in 2007

      458,000,000 - Amount, in dollars, that Hamilton County Taxpayers paid to build PBS

      2032 - Year that Hamilton County will have finally paid off its debt on the stadium deal

      3 - Total number of non-clerical employees employed in the Bengals scouting department, lowest in the league

      747,000,000 - Amount, in dollars, paid in free agency by the Bengals from 1994 - 2005, second worst of all 28 teams in existence for the duration, behind only Arizona

      118 – Ranking, out of 118 professional teams, of the “Worst Franchises” in professional sports, as ranked by ESPN the Magazine in 2003.

      97 – Ranking, out of 98 general managers in all four major sports with three or more years of experience, of Mike Brown’s performance as a GM, as ranked by Forbes in 2007.

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