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Who Dey Revolution Manifesto

  • Preamble

    IN THIS TIME of perpetual Cincinnati Bengals incompetence and futility, with zero playoff wins in the nineteen seasons since the WhoDeyRevolution Godfather, Paul Brown, passed away in 1991 and handed the team to his fortunate son, the Despot, Mike Brown;

    Introduction

    WE, the members of the Who Dey Revolution, in our fervent dedication to the Cincinnati Bengals and fanatical desire to transform our hometown team into perpetual Super Bowl contenders, call for a popular revolution of fans to demand comprehensive reform to the managerial decisions and approach of Cincinnati Bengals ownership, management, staff and players, and hereby call for the adoption of the following Who Dey Revolution Manifesto:

    Manifesto Demands

    THAT the Mike Brown, Katie Blackburn, Marvin Lewis, along with every other member of the Bengals management, staff and personnel, state publicly to all Bengals fans, “I will do everything in my power to help the Cincinnati Bengals win a Super Bowl;”

    THAT Mike Brown will hire a general manager, drastically expand the scouting department and relinquish all control of player personnel;

    THAT all training, rehabilitation and medical facilities are considered best-in-class compared to other NFL teams;

    THAT the management fill the team only with players who fit the system, both mentally and physically, and are not reluctant to makes changes to player personnel when needed, regardless of cost or loyalty concerns;

    THAT offensive and defensive line depth is considered the top priority for all player personnel decisions;

    THAT all decisions made by ownership, management, staff and players, both on and off the field, are judged only by this criterion: “Does this help the Cincinnati Bengals win a Super Bowl?”

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March 24, 2010

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My first thought is - those guys all probably sucked.

You should just try putting the spreadsheet on Google Docs and make it public (http://docs.google.com/). Then everyone can collaborate on it and you won't have to manually go through a bunch of e-mailed spreadsheets.

It's a good idea, however, there are lots of formulas specific to Excel I will end up using so I would prefer to keep things within Excel. However, it might be for the best. Will look into once I have time.

In looking at the "Marvin era" drafts most are not great, but not terrible either. I'd have to look up exact figures but i know the retention rate for draft picks by NFL teams is not much higher then 50-60%. Most picks don't pan out. Anyway it looks the Bengals got some nice lower round picks that are still with the team or like Peko are main members of the team. What shocks me is if you look at the 2005 draft. What a terrible draft, while Pollack and Henry had potential, sadly both are no longer on the team.

Ever since Marvin came in the drafts have been good (even in comparison to the rest of the league); they did have their two bad years: 2005 & 2007, but since then they have done pretty well- except for a couple of picks.

The names on this list from the 90's just don't sound like great football players. For some reason, their names don't look like they would be spectacular at anything. Does that make sense? Takeo Spikes, that is football name, not Mike Dingle. Great scouting report or not, I would not have selected him just b/c his name sounds like a push over.

Also that list shows what happens when you let the man with the money make decisions- nothing good comes out of it.

It is understandable that money can make people autonomous. But how to act when somebody doesn't have money? The only one way is to receive the business loans or just auto loan.

Ideas:

1. # of starts each player had
2. Years with Bengals
3. If player was re-signed by Bengals, cut, or other team for more $
4. Pro bowls - I'd expand this to a) how many, and b) how many with Bengals
5. Stay away from subjective ratings - puts too personal a stamp on what you're hoping to be a more objective database - you've got the comments section for snark (brilliant, brilliant, snark).
6. What about a cost factor? This would be more labor intensive (something you're hoping one of us picks up the slack for), but more in tune with validating the manifesto.
7. Other player available at this spot - granted this would benefit from hindsight, but if you narrowed it to players w/in the round (Oher instead of Smith, Perry instead of Jackson), it'd be better than, say, a Tom Brady in the 7th instead of an Akili Smith.

Let me put it this way. I am planning on giving all these guys 5's unless you can tell me a good reason why not.

Yeah - that Mike Dingle name is just ridiculous.

The problem with rating drafts is that -- the Bengals always use this an excuse -- the drafted players ending up sticking with the team and even starting. E.g. the Bengals defense hadn't been top 10 in about 2 decades, but they drafted gobs of defensive players who started and even stuck around a while. But so what? If the team sucks, and the defense sucks, why does it signify a successful draft if a guy ends up a starter on the 31st ranked defense? It's difficult to measure draft success except by WINNING or LOSING. Period.

I don't think the Marvin drafts have been that great but they have been better than the 1990s, which is sort of like saying you're a pretty good chef by MacDonald's standards.

If we just rate the rounds 1 thru round 3 picks:

2003 was really good (should have kept Steinbach on the team and losing him means the draft had less long term impact). Only Carson Palmer remains.

2004 was pretty crappy: Chris Perry was a walking injury report, Keiwan Ratliff was a complete bust, Madieu Williams went downhill after his rookie year, and Caleb Miller and Landon Johnson were two more in the long line of Bengals who start and make tackles on defenses that mostly suck, and then go away. And now none of those guys is in Cincy.

2005 was a combination of bad luck (Pollack) and daring the fates to piss on the team crappiness (Thurman, Henry). Now none of those guys is in Cincy, which hurts considering they also have nothing from the first day of 2004.

2006 was a very good year but Frostee Rucker was a reach and has been a pretty big bust of Ratliff-like proportions.

2007 was a good year (Hall) and again tempting the fates by drafting injury prone Kenny Irons and his knee explodes on the first play from scrimmage and then you only get one guy from the first day.

2008 looks to me like not that good a year. Rivers is, I hate to say it, the latest in a long line of non Pro Bowl linebackers they've picked in round 1. He's simply not that remarkable. Simpson is the only bust bigger than Keiwan Ratliff this decade. Sims and Caldwell are guys whose replacement value is later than round 3, I think.

I really like what Chazperin was saying and agree completely. While it's a given that this site is largely subjective in nature, the comrades of the WDR can always have their views downgraded to editorializing or worse (just bitching) unless pure analytical fact can be compiled. Facts tend to speak for themselves, which could save us some intra-group subjective arguing.

Bigger question... who's going to head the data mining operation?

The drafts that you just outlined are a dramatic improvement of where they were in the 90's. Are they perfect? Not by any means, but there is not a team out there that has great drafts year and year out.

When you compare these same years with the Steelers (the team we all want Brown to model this organization after) Marvin's drafts look very comparable:

2003 - 1) Troy - S (future HOF); 2) Alonzo Jackson - DE (who??? - bust); 3) Ike Taylor (not that great of a starter what you expect from a 3rd rounder)
2004 - 1) Ben - QB (Great QB, but major off-field issues); 2) Ricardo Colclough - DB (who??? - bust); 3) Max Starks - T (productive OL)
2005 - 1) Heath Miller - TE (my favorite TE in the game); 2) Bryant McFadden - DB (bust); 3) Trai Essex - G (starter) - I think this is Tomlin's first draft.
2006 - 1) Santonio Holmes - WR (good starter); 3a) Anthony Smith - S (bust); 3b) Willie Reid - S (bust)
2007 - 1) Lawrence Timmons - LB (starter); 2) LaMarr Woodley - LB (great pick); 3) Matt Spaeth - TE (another good pick, I was hoping we would pick him up in FA)
2008 - 1) Rashard Mendenhall - RB (good starter, it will be interesting to see if he can hold up over time from the abuse); 2) Limas Sweed - WR (Simpsonesque bust); 3) Bruce Davis - OT (bust)
2009 - 1) Evander Hood - DE (I don't think he played last year so TBD); 2) Kraig Urbik - T (maybe to take over for Starks or fill Davis shoes so TBD); 3) Mike Wallace - WR (good rookie year)

In that period, I think we had 2 really strong drafts: 2006, & 2008 (minus the Simpson pick), and 2009 is TBD. I included 2008 b/c Rivers is a good LB and they gathered good depth after the Simpson pick. Just b/c Rivers was drafted in the 1st round doesn't mean he is supposed to be a pro bowler (Timmons isn't and I don't think he is that bad); you just need good consistent production.

In that same time period, I have to say that the Steelers had 3 strong drafts: 2003, 2005 & 2007, & 2009 is TBD. When they get a starter, they draft a good starter, but they have a lot of picks that just disappear and our no longer on the team. This is with a larger scouting department too, which is supposed to give them an large advantage over Cincy.

The differences could be from timing: team needs vs level of talent available vs what other team needs are. When Marvin took over in 2003, he did not have much to start with except two bookend tackles, and two young and talented WR's. Everything else he needed to build from scratch- so he needed to draft bodies. Although the 2003 & 2004 drafts don't look so great those two drafts helped build the 2005 team. In comparison, the Steelers were a well oiled machine.

For the coming draft the Bengals team needs line up really well with what is supposedly available: TE, DE, DT, S. But how many other teams have similar needs, which can reduce the pool of available players really fast.

I might be able to take a couple of years on the data mine project after my test on Monday.

Good Lord that looks more like the Roster of the first XFL team than a professional football draft pick sheet. Jesus, its no wonder we sank to the bottom of the NFL that quick.

By the way who do you think would win in an eating contest between Andre Smith and Jeremy Johnson?

Out of all the guys on the list, Sam Shade is the only one I've heard of. He went on to be a decent player for someone else.

People deserve good life time and home loans or short term loan can make it much better. Because people's freedom is based on money.

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    Bengals Futility - By The Numbers

    • 20 - Years since the Bengals have won a playoff game

      0 - Total number of playoff wins in Mike Brown's tenure as owner

      .359 - Bengals regular season winning percentage since Mike Brown took over as owner (115-206-1 in 20 seasons)

      29-34-1 - Record since 2005 playoff game vs Steelers

      6 - Seasons the Bengals have lost their first six games since 1991. No other team has more than two.

      0 - Teams North of Cincinnati without an indoor practice facility

      10 - Players arrested in a 14 month span from 2005-2006

      32 - Mike Brown's ranking, out of 32, of the "Best Owners in the NFL" by Michael Silver of Sports Illustrated in 2007

      458,000,000 - Amount, in dollars, that Hamilton County Taxpayers paid to build PBS

      2032 - Year that Hamilton County will have finally paid off its debt on the stadium deal

      3 - Total number of non-clerical employees employed in the Bengals scouting department, lowest in the league

      747,000,000 - Amount, in dollars, paid in free agency by the Bengals from 1994 - 2005, second worst of all 28 teams in existence for the duration, behind only Arizona

      118 – Ranking, out of 118 professional teams, of the “Worst Franchises” in professional sports, as ranked by ESPN the Magazine in 2003.

      97 – Ranking, out of 98 general managers in all four major sports with three or more years of experience, of Mike Brown’s performance as a GM, as ranked by Forbes in 2007.

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