Friday Ramblings: Snoop Dogg Cares Not for Your 2005 v 2009 Bengals Debate

We all worried about the offensive line coming into the season.  Rightly so.  Aside from drafting a stud first rounder who has yet to see the field, not much changed from a line that Football Outsiders debated labeling the worst unit in all of football in their Almanac.  There are no traditional stats that directly measure offensive line play except perhaps sacks allowed (and hurries to a lesser extent), so again, WDR becomes another mouthpiece for Football Outsiders, who at least tries to measure these things.  Their conclusion?  The Bengals offensive line has likely improved more than any other unit in football.

So now what?  Try to work Andre Smith into a line that appears to be playing quite well together?  I think there must be a way to add a supremely talented lineman without screwing up chemistry.  Subtraction by addition should not apply.

The comments on this post, inexplicably, blew up into a larger debate about what WDR thinks of those who cannot keep up the boycott and have given into the winning.  Gfox plays the role of relapsed addict and gets both abused and reasoned with in comments.  I bring this up only to point out that WDR's stance towards relapsed fans is basically "it's okay, it's hard to not go to games, we understand, we do not hate you, you are always welcome here, but you should realize your behavior will only hurt you more in the long run." 

We all want the Bengals to win, we're all on the same side, we just have a really strong opinion about how to make that happen and we think the facts support our case.  So, Gfox, we love you bud.  Please stick around.

I think our commenters are more fervently opposed to Mike Brown than we are.  It's like having a team of hit-men working for you for free.  So fair warning to anyone, be sure you have a thick skin before you go wading into the pool of commenting.  Aqua Benga lurks there.

But back to the point of the post I referenced above, seriously, would you rather have Dan Snyder or Mike Brown as your owner?

Drinking some whiskey at the Bengals Bar in NYC after the victory last week, fellow comrade James asked me to at least give Mike Brown credit for the Leon Hall and Jonathan Joseph draft picks.  Two successful first rounders at a position that is both difficult to play and difficult to scout.  Okay fine.  Nice picks, Mike.

So there, we did it.  We gave Mikey some credit.  Don't say we never have.

This talk about drafting Leon and JJ sparked a larger debate about whether or not the Bengals are improving at drafting over time since Mikey took over.  I am working on a larger post about their drafting since 1996, since it corresponds nicely to an article written by Advanced NFL Stats that measures all the other teams' draft success, which is really the only way to benchmark the Bengals true drafting ability.

Speaking of our corners, you didn't have to watch closely to see that Flacco had to check down consistently because his receivers downfield were blanketed.  It also resulted in coverage sacks and Flacco getting hit.  I look at Holmes, Ward and Roethlisberger and worry that each one of those guys is better than their counterpart on the Ravens (Mason, Clayton, and Flacco).  I'd prefer it if our pass rush could make our corners look even better than they are, not our corners making our pass rush seem better than it is.

Pitt, Indy & New England are the teams to worry about the most.  Shocking.

Funny story from a friend: 

 "I just wanted to relay a story to you about my encounter with Snoop Dogg.  He came into our office today to visit with our department and promote his upcoming album.  He was two hours late, but whatever.  After he was done talking and answering questions, we each got our picture with him.  I was the first one and I asked him how many jerseys he owned.  He was unsure, but estimated thousands between the NFL and NBA.

I then asked him if he remembered a Bengals player by the name of Ashley Ambrose.  He said, yes, and goes, “#33, right?”  “ He was my boy.”  I confirmed, and told him that he wore that jersey on an episode of MTV cribs in the late 90s when no one was wearing Bengals jerseys.  He then said, “Well they’re winning now” to which I responded, “Yes they are.”

Good times!  Not sure what the point of that story is but, to paraphrase Chuck Klosterman, it just seems like the kind of information Bengals fans need to know.

While Snoop remains fixated on the 8-8 1996 season where Ashley made the pro bowl, the rest of us are enjoying a rare winning season featuring consecutive monster regular season divisional matchups.  Since the Bengals really have had only two relevant teams since 1991, folks have been offering their opinions on the 2005 team vs the 2009 team.

My thoughts:  I like teams that have one dominant aspect.  This is because in the playoffs, a short series of single elimination games, that one dominant thing can carry you.  Think Giants defensive line in 2007 or Ravens entire defense in 2001.  The Bengals had a dominant offense in 2005.  So I am tempted to say that I prefer the 2005 edition. 

However, the thing is, even if you have one dominant thing you still need the other parts of your team to hover around average (or be within shouting distance of it).  The 2005 defense may have gotten turnovers, but they were awful at one thing:  getting off the field on 3rd down.  They ranked 31/32 teams that year.  That would have killed them.

The current incarnation of the Bengals lacks the dominant offensive line, but the line is playing competently.  And the defense this year is light years ahead of the 2005 version.  So the 2009 Bengals get my vote unless something goes horribly wrong this season.

All this goes back to the Chris Henry injury.  Let's say Andre Smith comes in and provides and an extra boost to our line and Henry is still healthy.  Maybe that's enough to give us just enough edge to compete with the big boys.  I am not worried about the team winning without Chris Henry.  We will continue to win this season.  What I worry about is that he takes away a dangerous aspect of our game that on the margin allows us to compete for a Super Bowl instead of just a playoff appearance.

Comments

[CurseofBoJackson]

Tough loss, let's not overstate it. Personally, I lament to loss of Roy Williams to IR today much more than Slim. I know we've gotten along fine without him but his presence on the field is something WR's and TE's have to pay attention to, not so much with Chine, although I believe he can develop into something resembling Roy five years ago.
Further, if you think Mike had anything to do with the drafts of JJ and Hall aside from an ok to Marvin (who probably had to skip sleep and meals to dedicate time to scout them since MIke won't pay someone to), you're crazy. Mike can't consistently spot viable talent period, it's why we drafted Klingler, Akili Smith, John Copeland (who was no where near as bad as my first two examples). Sure there are exceptions like being able to pick gems like Chad and TJ, but overall he sucks. My guess (and that's all it is, although I think it's a pretty good guess) is that Marvin has done the necessary scouting for successful drafts and the lion's share of the footwork involved (like coaching the college all star game those few years) since he's been here. That's why the better drafting has occurred, don't fool yourselves.

[FeedMikeBrownToAquaBengal]

I keep thinking that it's worth gambling on Andre Smith and even Chase Coffman or even (horror of horrors!) Jerome Simpson.

Why? After 8 games you know what you have in the guys that have played. It's a pretty good team. A team that nobody takes seriously to go deep in the playoffs. They are not in the Steelers, Colts, Patriots class. That's why they are a touchdown underdog this weekend.

But they have what amounts to a first day of the draft that has not seen the field. Now, all three guys could suck. They could suck massively. But if you got something out of these guys it's a way for the team to step up after midseason.

Why not let Chase Coffman be the slot receiver if he cannot block? And let Andre Smith take Coats' place since they are about equal catching the ball. Can Jerome Simpson run a fly pattern? You only need two or three plays per game out of him.

[FeedMikeBrownToAquaBengal]

The injury list does look bad this week. Rivers apparently isn't going to be there either. They have a bunch of guys banged up.

[Competitiveness]

the Bengals have been using Henry in 3- and 2- wide sets without sending any TE's out (for obvious reasons). He helped Chad and Coles get open w/o any TE's to worry about, letting the passing game work while getting large boost in run blocking and pass protection. I guess Brat can do one of two things:

1-- Find another slot man/receiver that can give Coles or Chad a break. Maybe Caldwell, which is why he should not be returning kicks anymore (not like he's been good at it anyway)

2-- Bring in less TE's and FB's or send them out to catch passes. This would be risky, but if Brat thinks the line has developed enough, maybe

[Wyatt]

First off, Leon Hall is still the same Leon Hall who was constantly criticized in college and his first few pro seasons for giving up the deep play almost consistently. I don't think we should be giving too much credit for the drafting of a cornerback who could've been aptly named "Toast". Instead, I think more credit needs to go to Mike Zimmer, whose bump and run philosophy gives a slower cornerback like Leon Hall the ability to disrupt a receiver's route and make up for his lack of speed (not saying he's not a fast guy, just that he's not nearly fast enough to cover most of the speed receivers in the league). But yeah, since switching to Zimmer's more physical approach, Leon and J-Joe are being consistently lauded as "the best young corner tandem in the league" by a lot of football pundits.

[TheCarlPickensClause]

I think we see Andre Smith in there Sunday. Mathis is banged up and you know that the Bengals want to run the ball. Wouldn't be surprised seeing Roland, Andre and Collins in there to block. They need to knock them in the teeth by running the ball and keeping Ben off of the field.

[SM]

First off: Wyatt, I disagree on Leon Hall. He ran a 4.39 at the combine. That's pretty fast. Plus, the entire concept of NFL offense is that the WR always has the advantage because he knows the route he's running. So, every DB is gonna get burned at some point. Leon Hall has become one of the most complete DBs in the league--he is legit Pro Bowl caliber. He covers well, he's gotten much better at route recognition, and he fills hard on run support. Granted, Zimmer has greatly improved his technique, but there's no need to knock one of our best players.

As for Simpson, Coffman, and Andre Smith, I would bet that some/all of them get some playing time over the next three weeks with Oakland, Cleveland, and Detroit on the schedule. I really want Andre to get some playing time, because if he's as good a run blocker as I hope, he could be a great boost heading into the playoffs. Also, if they have any brains they will give Benson no more than 20 carries per game over that 3-week stretch and let Bernard Scott and Brian Leonard carry the load against some fairly weak teams. We need to keep Benson healthy for the playoffs.

[FeedMikeBrownToAquaBengal]

Hall is playing better this year, but I don't think either cornerback is elite yet. They make a nice tandem, but neither reaches the level of Eric Thomas, and Thomas was not at the level of Lemar Parrish. Parrish was easily the best CB in Bengals history (it wasn't Ken Riley) so, naturally, he was traded to the Redskins after a contract dispute... I think he was an 8-time Pro Bowl player.

The Bengals really don't have a stellar history on defense, to put it mildly. It's been ages and ages since they had a Pro Bowl DL or LB, for example. They have done slightly better in their history at the DB position.

[Hofbraunow]

Ashlizzle Ambrizzle

[Wyatt]

SM,

Are you a scout for the Bengals? Because you could be, if all you look at is combine numbers. Justin Smith had an amazing combine and look how many sacks that translated to. I don't care what Leon Hall's 40 time was - the fact remains he was known in college for getting burnt on the big play and he was known his first couple years in the league for getting burnt on the big play (including the TD pass from Eli Manning to Plaxico Burress in OT last year that sent the Bengals to 0-3, which I had to witness from about 17 rows up from where it actually happened). Now that Zimmer's practicing a much more physical sort of defense, it's covers up the fact that Hall doesn't play fast, regardless of how fast he is. And you can't tell me the Bengals wouldn't be better off with the combination of J-Joe and Darelle Revis, can you? If you can, you haven't seen a Jets game this year.