Vote or Die: Turd Sandwich or a Giant Douche?

Okay, so the Redskins awful conduct just keeps coming.  I didn't think anyone would challenge Mike Brown so soon (even Al Davis has a ways to go) but Dan Snyder is building quite the resume of ineptitude.  The latest?  He's banning signs  with the clear intent (even if the public statements say otherwise) to suppress the message of the fledgling revolution in DC.

Much like when South Park characterized the 2004 election between Bush and Kerry as a choice between a Turd Sandwich and a Giant Douche (bonus points if you identify which one each candidate was supposed to represent - and there is a right answer), I propose to WDR readers the same:

Who would you rather have as owner of the Bengals:

A. Dan Snyder (Giant Douche)

B. Mike Brown (Turd Sandwich)

I'd take Snyder since it seems he's willing to potentially spend money and maybe even lose some from time to time instead of totally free-riding off taxpayers.  But he is clearly much more egotistical, insane and overtly abusive of his fanbase than Mikey.

Full South Park clip after the jump.

Comments

[Wyatt]

Hmmm...hard to choose. Douchebag is more fan-abrasive, true, but there's the potential he'd sell the team if they started losing money, something we know is out of Turd Sandwich's realm of possibility. And true, Turd Sandwich is cheap to the point of hurting his team's ability to compete, but Douchebag spends all that money and really doesn't get any better results. I think you also have to take into consideration the underlings that this decision would entail - Katie "Horseface" Brownburn and Jim "Michelin Man" Lippincott v Vinnie "Douchebag Junior" Cerrato.

Really, really difficult decision, but I choose turd sandwich, if only for that old adage: "the devil you know is better than the devil you don't".

[Major Payne]

That's like asking me if I'd rather be kicked in my left nut or my right. No good answer.

[TONYTHETIGER]

Someone told me about this site in a banter at the last game while we we're putting a whooping on the bears.

I heard a rumor you guys are telling people not to go to games? I told myself, "why, this can't be true"! I assumed you were browns or steelers fans and then again, I have never been to this site.

I have been a Bengals fan ever since I can remember. I also agree with you that Mike Brown is a horrible owner. I am also not drinking the kool-aid. I'm aware that they could turn around next year and maybe win 3-4 games. I do enjoy them when we are winning. Would a GM make a difference? I believe that is a discussion on it's own. Even if MB did hire a GM, it's not his style to let them run the show. He would just be another puppet.

Regardless or whether or not he is a horrible owner one fact remains. You are actually trying to talk people into not going to the games? I'm a simple guy. I enjoy a relaxing stroll, a good cigar, and putting my feet up after a hard day.

I also like calling people out on there BS.

Here it goes.

You guys are douch bags and terd sandwiches.

YOU ARE TERDWICHES.

I ENJOY WHODEYFANS.

- enjoy your revolution.... my kids play cute little games too.... perhaps they can teach you a lesson about support...

[Rk]

Tony wike Brown thinks you are GGGGREAT. Keep lining the pockets big guy. Blind faith is a pitty.

And by the way i'm drinking the kool-aid. The only difference is i'm not sharing mine with the Brown family. Now have a good day.

[PAl]

Tony,judging from your post,"a fan as long as you can remember" doesn't tell us much......a week at the most? As far a teaching a lesson, maybe you need to take a few spelling lessons.

[TONYTHETIGER]

Those are just low blows. I'm sorry I didn't spell check. I'm glad you enjoy my frosted flakes.

Our kind look at this as support for the team. It has nothing to do with blind faith. Our family roots of the Bengal Bus go back further than you can remember son so easy with questioning the loyalty.

"The only difference is i'm not sharing mine with the Brown family."

You are looking way too far into this little guy. Do you have any Bengals gear? Do you make it all yourself? Did you burn any merchandise you have? I will attend games and support the team whether they win or lose. I also know that if they make it to the playoffs that you guys will struggle to get tickets.

Without being a keyboard warrior or a complete smartass and aviod the questions... please respond...

#1. What is your goal of this web-site?

#2. Would you attend a game if the Bengals went to AFC Championship?

#3. When you look back at this in a couple years... will you realize how big of a terd sandwich or doohbag you are?

I'm GGGGGRRRREEEEAAAAAATTTTTTT!!!!!

[Wyatt]

TONYTHETIGER,

Nice use of all caps there, chief - really points to your maturity level. Don't worry, though, most people that come on here ragging on the Revolution aren't very literate or able to construct intelligent arguments. That said, nice story about how you found this site, but I highly doubt there's two people with your same tunnel vision in regards to this team who can't spell "turd". Nice try, but we honestly didn't miss you while you were gone for a week-plus after the loss to the Texans, and we won't miss you when you disappear again after the next loss. So here are the answers to your questions, to the best of my knowledge:

1. The goals of this website are stated, QUITE CLEARLY, in the sidebar to the left, under the big bold heading "WHO DEY REVOLUTION MANIFESTO". I'll wait while you read it. Go ahead. Take your time.

2. I would go to the game if they made the AFC championship, but only on the condition that it wasn't played at PBS. A) I don't live in Cincinnati, and B) as a group, we've come to the conclusion that going to away games is an acceptable practice, because, even though Mike Brown still gets around 40% of the take from ticket sales at Bengals' away games, he's going to get it anyway, and that's one (or two or however many) seat that isn't filled with fans of the other team. Like you, I grew up a Bengals fan (third generation), but I grew up outside Pittsburgh, so don't start throwing out the "real fan" allegations, because it takes a real fan to support a team that's been this bad, this long, right in the heart of the Evil Empire that is Pittsburgh.

3. I'm afraid I'm going to have to abstain from answering this question, because I'm unable to do so without being "a complete smartass", but that's only because the question was posed in a smartassed manner, thereby making it nearly impossible to reply without being a smarass myself.

Hope that shed some light on things for you, even though I suspect this site isn't really as new to you as you claim.

[FeedMikeBrownToAquaBengal]

They must have let school out early today.

[TigerJ@w]

Hey TonyTheTiger, go tell your buddies that they need to help you go buy up the remaining 5,000 tickets for the Ravens game. There is a reason they are struggling to sell those tickets and it is not only the economy. That is a cop out. If the Bengals were not winning this year, no games would have sold out with the exception of the Steelers and maybe the Browns game.

If you have been handing over your money to MFB for all of the years he has been the owner then you are just a plain FOOL! I can tell you are a FOOL by your posts so no need to reply to show us again. I really don't blame you if you paid him for the first 5 years in control, but after this then you are just a FOOL if you continued to pay him.

Oh, back to the subject, I will take the douche bag, at least he attempts to build a winning team and he has built a winning team faster than MFB to boot. I am sure he can turn it around faster too.

[Gfox]

I honestly don't know why you guys completely rag on people w/ different viewpoints. I've been reading this site for a while to see how you guys feel about the current situation because I find it interesting, but haven't posted anything significant until now.

Since Marvin was hired and given more power than previous coaches, the team is 51-51-1. Granted, that's just mediocre, but it's a whole heckuva lot better than it was for the preceding 13 or so years and it puts them in the middle of the league over the last 7 years. The point is, over the last 7 years, it's not merely as bad as it's been made out to be.

Obviously, Mike Brown is a terrible owner. The team doesn't market itself well at all, and doesn't really care what the fans think about the team. That being said, this isn't the 90s anymore. This team has been an average football team in the Marvin Lewis era and has a chance this year to do some damage in the playoffs.

I'm not going to miss out on that (have tickets to the Chiefs game, and if I wasn't going to school down here @ Vandy I'd be attending every game the rest of the year) just because Brown is a blithering idiot.

[FeedMikeBrownToAquaBengal]

"The point is, over the last 7 years, it's not merely as bad as it's been made out to be."

The site is about NOT REWARDING SUCKITUDE *OR* MEDIOCRITY. Mike Effin Brown's goal is to be mediocre since that's the most profitable (at least for a linear thinker like Mr Brown). This site's goal, in contrast, is to have a team dedicated to being Super Bowl Champs. From that perspective, the last seven years aren't really that much different than the 1990s. It's nicer mascara. Yes, they've recently achieved .500 football and might even make a playoff appearance in 2009. Yippee.

It's clear that if Mr Brown gets rewarded for achieving .500 football, by people who are giddy enough about .500 football, that's the best you'll ever get. I will not put a dime into Mike Brown's pocket for this bit of over .500 flukiness, playoffs or not, because it's clear his goal isn't to win the Super Bowl.

[Gfox]

Alright, fair enough. But as your comrades here often point out to my types, you don't need to use caps to get your point across. I'll actually quote from Wyatt, "Nice use of all caps there, chief - really points to your maturity level."

Now, I don't think you are any less mature b/c you used all caps, I'm just pointing out that whenever anyone questions the revolution here, they typically get lambasted and called out on things such as that and incorrect usage of grammar.

I completely understand the whole "it's clear his goal isn't to win a SB" argument. I've questioned it myself, but the fact that he has allowed Marvin more control than any other coach, and it has coincided w/ a better product, and it has coincided w/ winning seasons and playoff aspirations gives me some hope.

I'm not asking for anyone to give up the revolution. If you don't think MB's main goal is to win a SB, fine, revolt. Just a little less fervent hate for those that question some things, especially the complete boycotting of home games. Mike Brown likely isn't going to leave the front office or change anytime soon, so I see no reason why we can't just enjoy the fact that we have a pretty solid team this year.

Don't buy season tickets for next year, don't by merchandise or food at the game, and other things along those lines are completely acceptable to me. But the only person you are depriving is yourself if you don't attend these games, b/c one way or another MB is going to get a sellout in the end.

[artist formerly known as Section 101]

tony- its about the super bowl. the only reason MFB cares about the super bowl is that he would make more money if it ever (freakishly) happened. i dont know how you can be a fan "ever since (you) can remember" and not be livid that MFB talks about the super bowl once a decade... .500 is good, playoffs are great, planning your weekends around bengals sunday should not change. what should change is giving your $$$ to mike brown so he never has to alter his current plan of bilking fans, the city, and the county. and keeps a championship out of reach.

[Sleeping With Bieniemy]

@Gfox,

It's unclear if Marvin has any power at all anymore. He did at one point but once the Chris Henry was brought back against his will it clearly indicated who has final say. Mike Brown.

Indeed, it is probable that since 2002 the Bengals have become an average NFL team. But this is during a time when we have a premier quarterback and at one point had the guys to protect him and weapons for him to use. And yet, we're still just an average team.

This failure to be anything but average so far with Carson should make you more upset than the floundering of the 90s.

Last, we at WDR have never asked anyone to not enjoy the winning. It is possible to enjoy the season and still boycott games/merchandise/concessions etc.

And we don't attack (well, not viciously at least) people for disagreeing with us. Perhaps some commenters get a little feisty but that's how things go in anonymous internet world.

[Mockenrue]

Gfox, I apologize on behalf of all revolutionaries if you or your loved ones or pets have experienced any "fervent hate" from Revolutionaries. I can say confidently that the most hateful posts have typically come, unprovoked, by dissenters of the Revolution. Dissent is fine in itself, but don't come on here and start insulting everyone willy-nilly. That's hateful and unproductive. It's our job to not respond in kind, of course, and that's something that I believe we as a group are gradually getting better at doing. I think there is a growing realization that we only make ourselves look worse when we bare our fangs after we've ourselves been bitten, so to speak.

As for the vehement disagreements, we are passionate about this team and want to see it successful in the long run. If we are convinced that certain behaviors of the front office staff, coaches, players, or even the fans are impeding the ability of the Bengals to be consistently successful, we will speak out against those behaviors.

The key is to attack the behavior and not the person, which as I said I believe we are starting to understand as a collective.

[Joemama]

The bengals are 51-51-1 since they drafted palmer, and have played in only one playoff game since they've drafted him? Thats not very good for a qb that I consider elite. 25 teams would love palmer, and only 1 playoff game is not Enough for a qb of his caliber at this point. That is why mike brown needs to go. He can't do ANYTHING with even an elite quarterback. I'd like to see what even the raiders, yes the raiders, could have accomplished with palmer so far. It hurts to even think about

[HappyNat]

Come on guys, it's a "giant douche" not a douche bag. Do some fact checking. I've lost all respect for WDR.

[Wyatt]

Gfox,

Just to correct a minor error (that may or may not have been a typo) - the Bengals have had a SINGLE winning season since Marvin took over, and three non-losing ones (8-8 is not a winning season, nor is it a losing one). And there's a difference between using limited words in the all-caps format and basing the majority of your post around it - the former is a way to emphasize a point on a website that doesn't allow altered typeface (although I can't confirm that html tags don't work, because I haven't tried them), while the latter is simply a sign of an ignorant mind screaming for attention.

Also, my suggestion to you and TONYTHETIGER is to stick to the Bengals.com forums. You won't find any "fervent hate" there, just blind optimism in the face of near-constant historical inadequacy. If you choose to continue to disregard historical precedent every time the Bengals put together a decent run of games, only to be disappointed repeatedly when the other shoe inevitably drops, then more power to you. But really, what good does it do to come to this site, a site where you know people have set their expectations for the Bengals considerably lower than yours (based solely on the aforementioned historical precedent), and post your opinion, which you know is significantly different than that of the regulars and authors on this site? You're not going to convince us of anything, and there's a good chance you'll get ridiculed, to boot. So, why bother? This is essentially a support group (perhaps we should call ourselves Whodey Anonymous: "My name is Wyatt, and I've been a Bengals fan for 24 years"), and guys like you and TONYTHETIGER, who are conspiciously absent when the Bengals are losing, are still in denial. Once you take that first step and admit you have a problem (and let's face it - we all do: we're co-dependent on Mike Brown. He relies on us to provide money, we rely on him to provide a football team, but he's abusing his end of the relationship, so now we're attempting to do something about it), then the healing can begin.

[CurseofBoJackson]

Bravo Wyatt, well stated.
I won't get all redundant here by repeating the good points that have already been made for Tony and Gfox to read, save for one thing that is worth reposting/repeating. What we want, tony and others like you, is for the Bengals to be PERENNIAL SUPER BOWL CONTENDERS, not perennial winning season contenders, or perennial non-losing season contenders.
No one here denies the difference since 2003, but the results have not been acceptable as they have not indicated a true desire on the part of the front office to be the best team in the NFL every year. What HAS been indicated by this organization for the last 19 years is the front office's desire to make the most profit possible for the Brown family and friends employed at PBS. We all LOVE this team but will not lemming up any longer on Sundays until there is evidence of significant positive change. That's a pretty simple point, you said you were a simple man, do you get it?

[Gfox]

See Wyatt, that's the point. You bring up the whole "conspicuously absent after losses". The point is, I was here, just didn't post. Just like I hadn't posted after any of their wins this year. I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion. I was just getting tired of seeing comments against people who actually want to attend these games.

I dislike Mike Brown as much as the rest of you, and my main point was, why miss these games? As long as MB is at the helm what are the chances we have a legitimate shot at a home post season game and SB contention again in the next 5 years? Go back to sitting at home next year until they prove this year was an aberration.

I completely expect something to go tremendously wrong in the offseason and for next year to be a complete waste of time. The one and only main point I've been trying to get back is why boycott games this year? Others are going to buy the tickets anyway, so why? To prove your personal vendetta against MB? It may be your one chance in the next 5 or so years to see a competent Bengals football team.

And you're right, I am in denial. I thought you guys would understand an opposing viewpoint (only on the boycotting of home games) that was well thought out and articulated, but I guess not. I guess I need to head to the Bengals.com forums, which I actually haven't been to in at least 5 or 6 years.

[MikeBrownGivesFreeBlumpies]

I'll take the turd sandwich, only because the more bread you have, the less shit you have to eat.

[BayouBengal]

"The one and only main point I've been trying to get back is why boycott games this year? Others are going to buy the tickets anyway, so why?"

I feel like this has been answered in the earlier posts, but I'll try to concisely summarize.

Q: Why boycott games this year? A: Because money is the only way to get Mike Brown to listen. Even that may not work, but its really the only chance at this point. If you only boycott after a string horrible years, but come back as soon as it looks like a promising season, then Mikey knows that all he needs to do is have a decent season every few years and he can keep everyone coming back. Nothing good is achieved without sacrifice, and the people here are willing to sacrifice the joy of seeing the bengals win a few games in person in the short term, in hope that real change will occur and they will get to see a bengals team that consistently win sometime in their lifetime.

Q: Others are going to buy the tickets anyway, so why? A: This is nonsense. Do you think there's an unlimited supply of buyers? The people who wish to buy tickets are a finite resource. Just look at this year, when it has taken last second buys of thousands of tickets (and not by fans) to sellout home games. I agree that 5 people boycotting would accomplish nothing, someone else would just buy the tickets. I agree that 500 people boycotting would accomplish nothing, someone else would just buy the tickets. 5,000 and now you're getting somewhere, because you can't just magically find new people to buy tickets once you get to a large enough portion of fans (i.e. would be ticket buyers) saying that they're fed up and refusing to participate in enabling Mike Brown.

Anyways, I hope that makes sense. I'm not trying to be confrontational, I just don't understand why this concept is difficult to grasp, so I'm tying to provide some clarification.

[TonyTheTIGER]

I agree w/ GFOX. Apparently it's not okay to have opposing viewpoints. Didn't your guys logo Che Guevara allow opposing viewpoints? Whenever there is an opposing viewpoint you guys flip out and say the same things. I will tell you. 1. You guys are supporting MB and making his pockets bigger. 2. We are naive because we are supporting this bad cause. 3. We would not be cheering if we were losing. BLAH BLAH BLAH. You are very predictable.

I also didn't post until I saw what was happening on here. I agree that MB is a bad owner. I know all of his stats so you don't need to post them again (so fricken annoying). If I want a pretzel and a beer at the game, I will buy a pretzel and a beer. I won't whine because I'm helping MB pay for his Mercedes.

I have asked on every post the same question as GFOX. Why boycott games? Why not enjoy the moment because it may not happen for a long time. You guys remind me of some of my 4th grade students. They wear Che Guevara t-shirts and talk about making a change to add more recess time. All they are doing is wasting there time wishing they had more recess and not enjoying it while the teachers are laughing thinking it is cute. This time, your revolution is the students and the ownership and players are the teachers. They are laughing at you thinking how cute this is. I have 3 players students in my Math class and I asked them what they thought of your banner Yes, I am a MATH teacher. THIS IS THE TIME WHEN YOU TELL ME SINCE I AM A MATH TEACHERS I SHOULD KNOW THESE FACTS AND YOU PUT DOWN STATS...OR YOU GO THROUGH MY POST AND ATTEMPT TO FIND SPELLING ERRORS. Please don't be predictable.

You will not change anything with the front office. Just enjoy the moment.

- You guys are still turdwiches.

[CurseofBoJackson]

I understand your opposing viewpoint, I just don't agree with it. Sure, I would LOVE to sit at a game this year, but then I am giving my money to uncle scrooge who will in turn take it as a sign that he is ok to continue to fleece our fan base by once in a while putting together a good team with a good/decent/not totally horrible record. Mike obviously cares about money, from my estimation after twenty plus years of fandom, that is largely all he cares about other than his big ego attached to being a great football mind...... So the only way for fans who want to affect a significant change to do that, is by hitting him in the pocket book. And to further rebut, I think the fact that the Bengals are having trouble selling out games in the midst of a great start to the season is evidence that people are buying in (like buying in to what this site has promoted) and are in general, tired of the Brownburn's act. The mindset you have is the same as saying, well, I'm not going to recycle, I'm just one person, or I'm not going to vote, I'm just one person, i don't make a difference. But you DO, if you get together with people who feel the same way, and are ready to (not) do something about it (buy tickets/merchandise etc..) It's simple and has the potential to have some unpleasant repercussions like not being able to se the game on TV, but if you love this team so much, wouldn't a little sacrifice be worth it if it produces or helps produce a more in touch front office? AGAIN, I want a team that cares ONLY about winning championships, and I want that team to do EVERYTHING possible to make that concern a reality every year. Don't you?

[Gfox]

I agree w/ that Bayou, the only way Mike will listen is if the stadium is half empty for a season, or something along those lines.
The problem w/ that and the 2nd half of your response is that during a winning season, it's not going to be like that. Maybe at worst this year they end up 2,000 short of blackout territory, and then end up w/ a sellout (or close to one) anyway when fans scoop up the rest of the tickets on Saturday.

But whether anyone here boycotts home games or not, they are going to be at worst 2-3 thousand short of blackout territory. That isn't going to affect MB. So why not enjoy this season, all the while knowing everything is likely to explode in your face?

Honestly, even if the Bengals win the SB this year, I'd see no reason why to shut this site down. I'd fully expect JJ to come back next year too fat, Carson to come back in a full body cast, and 6 defensive starters to be arrested on any number of charges. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to enjoy this while it lasts, especially since if I don't go to the game, precedent has been this year that someone else will.

[BayouBengal]

Tony: You do realize the irony in someone who came in here are started right off with name calling comparing other people to 4th graders, right? And don't try to play the victim role about opposing viewpoints.... or did you forget the fact that your first post in this string was to call people who simply have a different viewpoint than yours terdwiches?

[BayouBengal]

"Honestly, even if the Bengals win the SB this year, I'd see no reason why to shut this site down. I'd fully expect JJ to come back next year too fat, Carson to come back in a full body cast, and 6 defensive starters to be arrested on any number of charges. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to enjoy this while it lasts, especially since if I don't go to the game, precedent has been this year that someone else will."

This site will accomplish nothing without actual action, e.g. boycotting, so just keeping the site up accomplishes zero.

The clear difference between you and the people who boycott is this: They believe they can make a difference. You apparently do not believe you can make a difference. And that's fine. I'm not criticizing you for that. But the idea that something (such as the boycott) might fail is not necessarily adequate reason not to do it.

And for clarities sake, when I say "they" in reference to boycotting, it is only because I do not live in cincinnati anymore, and i feel it would be disingenuous to say "we", because I have a much easier time not going to games. :-p were I in cincinnati, I would still not go, and then I would be willing to include myself among the boycotters. :-D

[CurseofBoJackson]

Why try and be non confrontational? Neither of the two "terdwiches" posting on here with "opposing viewpoints" are abiding by that expectation.
Gentleman, your agruments are terminally flawed, you are exactly what the Brownburns want, fans who buy right back in when there is event the slightest sign of a possible winning season. They have failed miserably to produce a consistently good team, what is hard to understand about fans wanting better for this fabase and attempting to do somehting about it? What would you suggest? Give the cause up becasue we've won 5 of seven games this year? Jesus Christ, I feel like this is parenting, we are doing this for you, even though you apparently don't like it, we are doing it anyway because it's good for you, even if you don't know it, or refuse to admit it. Where do you get such an endless supply of rose colored glasses I demand to know?

[Ho Chi Maier]

Tony and GFox-
I would love to see your answers to these questions?

Are you satisfied with the last 19 years of football provided to us by Mike Brown?

Do you want to see sustained success in future Bengals seasons?

Do you trust Mike Brown to make the necessary changes for this franchise to become successful?

Do you think the average fan, gathering in a group a la WDR, can pressure an organization to make changes?

ANSWER NO
A. are you still comfortable financially backing an organization with the success record of the Bengals organization? Please explain.
B. Can you give me an example of anything else you happily put your money into which performs at the success level of the Bengals organization? The Bengals essentially have correctly operated once in eighteen attempts. I would be shocked if you consistently and happily your money into a product that worked ten out of eighteen attempts. And then you would defend your purchase.

ANSWER YES
What do you suggest is a better way for the average fan to apply pressure on Mike to make the necessary changes?
*keep in mind WDR has already boycotted all Bengals merchandise, PBS tickets, and concessions. WDR has also effectively run an ad campaign in Cincy against the Bengals front office, which was significantly funded by WDR readers/fans. This ad campaign has been featured on nationally televised football games, the feature story on ESPN.com's NFL home page, and by dozens of nationally recognized newspapers, radio shows, and websites.

If ANYONE has a suggestion on how to more effectively show the Bengals organization the city of Cincinnati will no longer put up with anything less that sustained success PLEASE TELL US! We are not trying to be “right” and prove WDR haters wrong, we don’t give a shit about that. All we want is trust that the Bengals Front Office has the tools to put a playoff team on the field more often than not. All we want is sustained success. I would love for Mike Brown to be a hibernating football genius who comes out of his slumber this season and proves me totally and utterly wrong. It would make me extremely happy. Does anyone really think that is going to happen?...Anyone? How can’t you people learn from history?

For the slave moralist people who think we are doing a disservice, don't worry. I'm sure that Mike Brown is just on the verge of turning into the next Bob Kraft and Bengals into the Patriots of the next decade...........................don't hold your breath.

VIVA!

[Sleeping With Bieniemy]

@HappyNat - good point, it has been corrected. I was working off of memory from when I saw the episode 5 or so years ago.

@GFox - we have outlined thoroughly our response to those who ask "why not just go to the games and enjoy it this year when they're winning since it's so rare". I am not saying this sarcastically/condescendingly or any way but honestly: if you do not understand that argument then you do not quite understand this website.

Two points and I'm done commenting on this post for now:

1. With 5000 tickets left for the Ravens game, one of the more meaningful games the Bengals have played in 2 decades, I think the evidence is starting to mount that the fanbase is at a tipping point. The Brown Family cannot afford one more year like 2008.

2. Whether or not those 5000 tickets get sold has no bearing on a)the Bengals ability to win this football game (it will be plenty loud), b) the ability of a Bengals fan to enjoy this season or c) whether or not you are a "good" fan. What not selling those tickets will do is send a message loud and clear to the Brown Family that fans are wising-up about how they support the Bengals.

[Ho Chi Maier]

@tony

"you are very predictable" yeah, of course we are you maroon. We have clearly stated our goals on the left of this page so this things we say/do are likly to be right in line with them.

Keep defending your Mike Brown's Bengals organziation, unfortunately for the city of Cincinnati, history shows they are very predictable as well. How are those crumbs that Mike is tossing you this season? They have got to be the best crackers in the world.

Don't forget Mike Brown has also stated his goals, to be "competitive". Sounds like he really means it this year.

VIVA!

[TONYTHETIGER]

Ho Chi Maier - I am done with you. You clearly didn't read by points addressing what you have asked.

Can you give me an example of anything else you happily put your money into which performs at the success level of the Bengals organization?

The answer is... Yes I can. I put my money in this computer. Which, in return, allows me to make solid points about you being a terdwich. I do realize I don't set the best example for my students. I also realize that I have a sense of humor just like everyone else. Therefore, you are a terdwich (Est. 2009, TONYTHETIGER)

- WDR = Terdwiches

[TONYTHETIGER]

@ Ho Chi Maier

Can you give me an example of anything else you happily put your money into which performs at the success level of the Bengals organization?

YES. I purchased my computer that is a little slow... but it allows me to call you a terdwich. I'm very happy with the outcome of you getting upset and how you keep repeating yourself with no outcome.

Also, after I talked to some of the players about this they laughed and said they got a kick out of how someone wasted there time on that and how all that did was fuel them to play harder knowing Cincinnati residents did that. So maybe I should thank you. Apparently they don't like you.

WDR = Terdwich (copy. TONYTHETIGER).

Seacrest OUT!!!!!!!

[CurseofBoJackson]

BAAAAHHAAAAAA BBAAAAAHHHAAAAAA!!!!! You "talked to the players huh? Which ones? Where? In what context? SO you're personal friends with them? You sir, are full of shit, and if you actually do have some REAL connection with Bengals players, I have two suspicions, you are really Jim Lippincott, or you are really just the dumbest Math teacher in the world.
And is you REALLY did have the conversation you say you did, and the response you say you got was an honest representation, then GOOD! Players say it makes them play harder, hopefully it makes it's way to the front office and has a similar effect. You say this cause won't matter, but you just stated (when you lied about 'talking to some players') that the cause has had an effect. TONYTHETIGER = Every other dork ass math teacher I ever had in HS and College, way to rep Tony..... Douche

[concretefish]

Wow. I need a drink. Aren't Teletubbies on or some shit?
Down with Brown.

[WhoDeyFans]

@Ho Chi Maier

Thanks for checking out the site. I made the post you asked me to.

[TigerJ@w]

Tony, for being a math teacher you would think you would have enough common sense to understand the economics of what makes MFB's business run. I can see you do not due to you keep going to the games and keep making purchases at the concession stands. What are we to enjoy here? A 5 and 2 record? I did not know a 5 and 2 record constituted the end of a season. Once again, you are a math teacher here, how many games are in a season? You act like they are going straight to the playoffs. Let's take this one game at a time shall we. I am enjoying this season, RIGHT NOW, but it is not over with yet. I hope they do make it to the playoffs, but if you have not heard, MFB has stated before that he loses money when his team makes it to the playoffs and would lose even more by going to the Super Bowl. What do you think MFB really wants?

Um, here is what he wants below, your money....He threatened season ticket holders and lied about there being a waiting list for season tickets, but now is begging for the fans to come back. LOL

Nice try, Mr. Bald One!

Special Offer to Former Season Ticket Holders:
Reinstate your COA at NO Cost!
We know many of our loyal fans have been weathering this tough economy and for many the decision to relinquish their season tickets and seat licenses (COA) was a difficult one. With a great start to the 2009 season, the Bengals want to reach out to you with a special offer. The team will reinstate the current value of your COA should you purchase tickets for the remainder of the 2009 season. We will offer you the best seats remaining in the house at the season ticket cost, as well as guarantee you first right of refusal on those same seats for any potential home playoff games. We want our most loyal fans here in the stadium as we make our push toward the playoffs.
So to recap, your benefits will include:
*Same seats for all home games at the season ticket rate ($5 discount per ticket compared to the single game rate)
*Seat license (COA) reinstatement
* Better seating locations available compared to single-game tickets
* First right to your seats for home playoff games
* First right to your seats as season tickets for the 2010 season
The Bengals strong start has positioned the team well to make a playoff push and we want to make sure you don't miss a minute of the action!
The Bengals have a current sellout streak of 48 consecutive home games, dating back to November 2003 when the Bengals defeated what was at the time a 9-0 Kansas City Chiefs team. This new team record of 48 sellouts surpasses the prior mark of 43 set from 1988-1992 at Riverfront Stadium.
To reinstate your season tickets and COA today, call the Bengals Ticket Hotline at (513) 621-TDTD (8383).

Real deal. From Lance's blog.

[Mockenrue]

Wyatt mentioned that coming to WDR with an opposing viewpoint gives one a "good chance to get ridiculed." While this is factually accurate, it's a shame, isn't it? Some people like TONYTHETIGER are simply trolling - and I'm going to be a "stereotypical WDR commenter" here and mention that if someone with his grasp on the English language is actually teaching fourth grade students, as he implied, there are serious problems with the state of American education. Maybe we should be protesting that instead.

But anyway, the point is there is a clear and obvious difference between someone like TONYTHETIGER and someone like Gfox. Neither one agrees with the boycott in principle (this year, at any rate), and both have come here to voice that viewpoint. However, Gfox has been relatively articulate and has admirably not resorted to the typical name-calling and insult drudgery - DESPITE receiving some of that from us. While I think it's clear that Gfox doesn't quite "get" what we're about and I don't believe his logic is sound in the end, that doesn't make him a moron (or a "maroon").

I know it can get tiresome that we cover the same ground over and over and that a lot of incoming comment authors demonstrate that they either haven't read or haven't understood our other posts, but let's just continue to keep in mind: we are all Bengals fans, we all want Mike Brown gone, and we all want a championship in Cincinnati. Play nice.

I'm tired of sounding like a hippie. But for real. Even I'm getting tired of watching this place devolve into flame wars.

[mgl]

I'm new to posting here, and I also agree with Gfox's point:
I don't believe you're going to have an effective boycott while the team is winning. In a losing season it could possibly be effective (although I have doubts), but most people watch footballs games just to enjoy themselves. They don't care as much as the posters here do about the organization. They just want to have fun, not prove a point about the owner's financial tactics and lack of GM.

[mgl]

Uhg. Excuse my typo.

[Gfox]

First off, thanks Mockenrue.

Second, I agree my logic isn't sound. But it's founded in the experience I had at the games I attended in 2005. Nothing is better than the Jungle when this team is competitive. And I agree that the only way for this team to be competitive on a consistent basis is for Brown to change his ways. So the goal should be to do things that get Brown to change his ways. I did agree w/ boycotting at the beginning of the season. The only reason I'm changing my tune now is b/c I don't want to deny myself the opportunity to be a part of a great atmosphere just b/c I have a great disdain for MB.

It's got to be kind of hard for this site right now, I understand that. It has to be difficult to gain an audience when the team is actually winning. If the team was 2-5, there would be many more followers here. That is exactly why I posted and why I asked about the negative comments toward those that dislike Mike but want to attend games this year. Unless if the commenters here ease up people like that, the site/movement likely has little chance for growth unless if the Bengals lose again like they did last year. Do any of us really want that?

We all want Brown to change his ways, that's what we want.

[mgl]

"That is exactly why I posted and why I asked about the negative comments toward those that dislike Mike but want to attend games this year. Unless if the commenters here ease up people like that, the site/movement likely has little chance for growth unless if the Bengals lose again like they did last year. Do any of us really want that?"

Right! A site/movement that is going to depend on popularity amongst Bengals fans really is doing itself no favors by alienating portions of the fan base.

[Mockenrue]

Gfox, I agree we aren't going to win any friends or allies through belligerence, and I'm hopeful that productive, healthy, and most of all friendly discussion can occur here whether all parties share a viewpoint or not.

There is an interesting point within your statement, though. You state that because the team is winning, it is difficult (though not impossible) for WDR to gain any further following. And I agree with the assessment. Yet you aren't suggesting that we just put the entire revolution or its message on hold until the team sucks again, because that's unproductive and "do any of us really want that?" Of course not.

Do you see the parallels yet? Because the Bengals are winning, a boycott is difficult (though not impossible) to put into effect. It is difficult (though not impossible) to convince fans not to go to the games. Yet to sit around and wait until the team starts losing again and the masses are more receptive to the message is unproductive, and we've lost precious time. Whereas if the message gets through while the team is having success, that success might be sustained (as opposed to rebuilding when the team is once again dismal). Do you see my point?

You said that you supported boycotting at the beginning of the season (do you mean preseason or until the Green Bay/Steelers wins?). And you said that your viewpoint "is not sound," logically speaking. And you admitted that the only reason you're against the boycott now is that you don't want to miss out on the Bengals winning. All of it is understandable, but it strikes me that you are very aware that a boycott, whether the team is currently 5-2 or 2-5, is right for the future of this organization. And obviously you can't support the boycott outwardly and still attend games, so when faced with the decision, you chose the latter.

I don't think your decision is right for the future of this franchise, but we all have emotions invested into this team, and I'm not about to question your right or dedication to be a "real fan" of the Bengals. I will only ask that if you aren't going to support the boycott, that you not decry it either. I think that's a reasonable thing to ask of any Bengals fan.

[Wyatt]

In reading all these comments along the lines of "I'm just one person - I can't make a change" or "WDR is such a small group - they can't expect any change", I'm reminded of a song: "Waiting on the World to Change", by John Mayer. It's not that you guys don't care, you just know that the system isn't fair, and you're biding your time until something better than our grass roots campaign comes along, is that it? (And that was an honest question, not a sarcastic rhetorical one, as I'd generally be inclined to post - at this point, I'm trying to gauge the opposing viewpoint here and separate the wheat from the chaff, as it were.)

To me, knowing that a boycott is the best possible option for this team and still being unwilling (or unable, as you've claimed) to follow through with it shows a lack of fortitude and an inability to stand up for what you believe in. As I've stated in the past, however, I'm not from Cincinnati, I don't currently live in Cincinnati, so far be it for me to tell you how or where to spend your Sunday afternoons. As BayouBengal said, that would disingenuous on my part, especially since I've attended road games in both the 2008 and 2009 seasons. However, even if I was sent to a job site in downtown Cincinnati, I wouldn't go to Paul Brown Stadium on a Sunday, no matter how important the game was (no, not even for the AFC Championship Game), but that's because I'm of the mind that even if I was in the blackout area and couldn't even watch the game on television, if me not going in any way helped convince Mike Brown to do things the right way (ie, hiring real football minds to make the important decisions, bolstering the scouting ranks, etc), then that sacrifice is worthwhile on my part, because, in the long run, I'm missing one game, ONE GAME, for the sake of the long-term success of my favorite team. Of course, that's where the "if you don't buy a ticket, someone else will" argument really comes into play, because no matter the location of a conference championship game, it's certainly going to sell out; however, as a matter of principle, I wouldn't be able to enjoy myself at the game, no matter the end result, knowing that I had done nothing except continue to tell Mike Brown that occasional flashes of above-average performance are more than enough to make up for nearly two decades worth of utter and complete ineptitude. Am I cutting off my nose to spite my face? Quite possibly, but I'm doing it because I want to be able to tell my friends and family (the vast majority of whom, by virtue of living/growing up in western Pennsylvania, are Steeler fans) that my team is every bit as good as theirs, and have some kind of factual proof to back that up. As it stands right now, we've got a victory over them in 2005 that's actually worth referencing because it won the division that year, but looking at the bigger picture, who had the last laugh? Not only did they beat us in the playoffs en route to winning the Super Bowl, they also injured our franchise quarterback and essentially derailed our next three seasons after that playoff appearance. I want to be able to talk about more than a Super Bowl game when I was 8, not to mention actually being able to brag about having a Super Bowl victory.

As it stands, can you honestly say that you see that in this team's future? Granted, I'd give the Bengals a fair shake against any NFC team if they could make it to the Super Bowl, but unless they can prove that the offensive showing against the Bears (and not the offensive/defensive performances against the Texans) are the norm this season, do you really give them realistic odds of bettering a Colts team or a Patriots team in the Playoffs? I can see the argument for the Patriots, because I think they're severely overrated, and the Bengals were able to hang with (and should've beaten) Denver, who handled New England rather impressively; however, I don't think there's any way the Bengals go into Indy and win - after all, they made Matt Schaub look like Peyton Manning, so imagine what the real thing would be able to do.

I don't know, I rambled and digressed there (exhaustion is taking its toll), but my point remains - if you lack the fortitude to stand up for what you believe is right, then at least give the loyal fans from Cincinnati who frequent this site the respect that they deserve for doing what you're unwilling or unable to do. And that's not intended as a knock on anyone, as I'm basing that entire line of logic on an admission you made in an earlier post and assuming (which could be a critical error on my part) that your reasoning bears to mind some of other anti-Revolution commenters who visit here. In retrospect, that's probably a flawed assumption from the get-go, since most of them seem unwilling/unable to admit that a boycott is the best thing to do to bring about change in the management structure of this team. Ah, well, I spent the last fifteen minutes typing - it's getting posted. Good night, all.

[Mockenrue]

Wyatt, you could have just said "I agree with the above comment." =P

In all seriousness though, doesn't "Waiting On the World to Change" just give the worst message ever? It's like the rallying cry to be lazy. I hate that song.

[Gfox]

No, I give you guys all the respect for holding to your boycott. My main point was and still is: It's not good to rag on the people who come in and question the boycott or say that they are going to games.

These are people you (we?) need to recruit into the revolution. I know that I fail and am a D-Bag b/c I am going to a home game, and maybe home games(if they host a playoff game, I'm there), this year. However, my argument is that I waited until they were 5-2 to change my mind. I wouldn't have gone to the Bears game or any game before now, but man, after being at those games in 05, the excitement is too much for me too pass up. I may be weak and stuffing Brown's pockets, buy hey, at least I bought my tickets off of StubHub. So technically, it was someone else that stuffed his pockets. I just can't pass up this opportunity, when the past shows it could be a while before they truly "compete" again. I'm a Bengals and Reds fan that spent a lot of time in Indianapolis (Colts), then went to school near St. Louis (Cardinals), and now goes to school in Nashville (Titans). I've seen a lot of winning from teams I despise, and a lot of losing from teams I follow. I just can't bring myself not to go to at least 1 game.

Basically, I don't mean to rag on you guys for boycotting at all. My main point was and is that it isn't good policy to drive anyone away that does come to this site. While the team is winning, recruiting is what needs to be focused on. That's why I posted. I wish to see some sort of change enacted, and if something actually does come out of this site/movement, great.

[Mockenrue]

In that case Gfox, I don't think you'll find anyone here in disagreement (anyone thinking rationally, anyway). And it's definitely refreshing to have someone who doesn't want to participate in the boycott not acting like vermin. I can only say that I hope the icy reaction you initially received was directly due to your predecessors, who have all been rude, obnoxious, and generally disruptive for disruption's sake. Until the team loses.

It's unfair for us to automatically lump you in that category just because you have a slightly differing opinion, but just as Mike Brown has conditioned us to expect losing, these kinds of Bengals fans have conditioned us to expect insults and idiocy.

Your advice is sound and well-received. All I'm saying is that it takes both sides to run smoothly.

[mgl]

"To me, knowing that a boycott is the best possible option for this team and still being unwilling (or unable, as you've claimed) to follow through with it shows a lack of fortitude and an inability to stand up for what you believe in."

I know you're talking to someone else, but I think it's interesting that the wording you're using here is the language I would reserve for social and moral issues. And, to me, I just don't see wanting a better football team to be an issue where "standing up for what you believe in" to be necessary. I would *like* the Bengals to be a better organization. But, ultimately, I -- and many -- watch football for enjoyment. And when the product isn't enjoyable, then I would be all for a boycott. But when it is enjoyable, even if that's only a limited time enjoyment, than the sport is giving me what I want. I (and others) aren't being weak, we're being given *what we wanted in the first place.* It's not a moral issue, to me, it's a pride and entertainment issue.

Not that sports can never HAVE issues that I could feel morally obligated to act on, win or lose. If I was boycotting a game for racist policies, for example, I would be "standing up for what [I] believe in." On the other hand, one old man's hubris and possible daddy-issues leading to twenty years of awful or subpar football play is personally frustrating, but nothing more.

[EddieWishesSpencerWouldPostAnotherCartoon]

Good news. They're selling turd sandwiches at the game next week. 12 bucks apiece, but you get a free douche to wash it down with!

[Danimal, Destroyer of Worlds, Eviscerator of Steeler Fans]

Wow.

Choosing between Snyder and MB is like choosing which of the two I'd rather drink if I was forced to choose between Smirnoff Ice and Bacardi Silver.

[TheCarlPickensClause]

Before I start, please forgive my potential typos, as I'm typing this on my iPhone.

You guys are missing the entire point. Whether or not you agree with this website, it's purpose and reach have already had an impact this year. Let's look at this objectively (you know, try and be unbiased--not spooge over how great you think WDR is, and also not pretend like the bengals are a legendary franchise): this site's main goals are to have Mike Brown relinquish power to a G.M. and other personnel with football knowledge more expansive than his own, beef up the scouting department, market the team properly to get national exposure, make the necessary changes in the coaching department, as well as drafting better and bringing in solid free agents. In 2008 the bengals had the sixth-worst record in the NFL. They made no coaching changes. Everybody called for Bratkowski's head but he remained. From last year to this year, the Bengals have the leading rusher in the NFL (barring this week's bye) and Carson Palmer is having a respectable year. Beyond this, the have turned the offensive line from the biggest question mark into one of the better units in the AFC at this point.
Everybody lambasted the bengals for not resigning T.J. and taking Coles in free agency instead. Coles has one less TD (3) in less than half a season than T.J. did in 2008. If you look at it this way, Andre Caldwell and Coles have and will end with nearly twice the production that T.J. had AND without the pissy attitude. Seattle is 2-5 and the Bengals are 5-2.
Speaking of high priced free agents, the Bengals had arguably their most active and productive free agent years in 2009. Notoriously slow/cheap in this area, the bengals have reaped the benefits of Coles, retained the aforementioned Benson, Crocker, Roy and Tank Williams have had an impact in the run defense and let's not forget the best trade they've made since the James Brooks/Pete Johnson steal--Orien Harris for Brian Leonard. Leonard won the game against Pittsburgh an the Bengals even ended up with Harris again down the road. When was the last time the Bengals made a trade player for player? Indirectly tied to the fans disgruntlement and WDR.
After free agency came the draft. The Bengals came out with one of the best drafts of the year. Players fell to them and the fulfilled depth and need. Many of these players are already contributing--Michael Johnson, Rey Maualuga, Kevin Huber, Morgan Trent, Bernard Scott.
We all want national exposure for the Bengals--Mike Brown made the decision to put the Bengals on hard knocks. An excellent decision to shed perceptions and get the fanbase stirring. Great series. Indirectly tied to WDR.
Through the "project mayhem" tasks and other things that WDR performed ticket sales have slumped. Their website has video of players begging fans to sell out the upcoming games, as well as using local businesses to give/sell the remaining tickets. Quasi-success for WDR.
The other demands were not met and some may never be. There was a rumor in the offseason that the Bengals were looking at bringing in Randy Lerner as a G.M. I am of the opinion that the Bengals will never hire a G.M. as long as Mike Brown is alive. He is not a good owner, but as the saying goes "every dog has his day".
The bottom line is that not all of your demands will be met at WDR, but this site and other disgruntled fans' ire has been felt this season and that's why your seeing this team atop the AFC North. Enjoy it. This season has been the best one I can remember watching in a long time. Don't whine just to whine.

[TheCarlPickensClause]

I apologize about an error in my previous post. I said Randy Lerner in a rumor when that wasn't who I meant. I meant the ex-dolphins G.M. Also, don't crucify Gfox and Tonythetiger for having a differing viewpoint. That's ridiculous.

[Mike Brown=El Guapo]

This is a trick question, Mike Brown is both a turd sandwich and a giant douche

[Hofbraunow]

The name is the recipe,

and as the title of this article clearly shows,

one impossible choice merely begets another

Something must be done to break the chain of madness!

Join the WDR Today!!!

VIVA