Since There Appears to be Interest...

Showtime's boycott post has garnered lots of comments so why not pile on!  I actually wrote something as well but didn't run it at the time.  I'll run it now as a throwaway for anyone who actually checks this site on a Saturday.  The post FJM's the Cincy Jungle post and addresses some of the points in more detail instead of in broad strokes like Showtime.

I'd also like to briefly mention that WDR writers do not benefit in anyway financially from WDR and have no financial incentive whatsoever to see the Bengals lose.  Somehow, that seems to have gotten into people's heads.  It is crazy.  I am actually in the hole a few hundred dollars.

Okay, rest of the article after the jump.

People are starting to question our mission.  No surprise, the season has gone well so far.  The easiest way for us to clarify is to simply FJM the Cincy Jungle post since it covers most of the basic questions being asked of The Cause.

Here goes:

(Cincy Jungle article will be in bold, with my comments following, in case you don't know how this works)

The Bengals had beaten all three division opponents in consecutive weeks, lead the division with a 4-1 record. And the support is, where? Is it the boycott? Aren't you worried about missing out on what happens this season?

I doubt it's the boycott.  But the most important thing about this paragraph is the following:  it conflates home game attendance with support of the Bengals.  No one should feel they aren't supporting the team if they choose to stay at home.  Anyone can be a Bengals fan and never go to a game or spend a dime on the team.  In fact, at WDR we'd argue that's the best thing you can do as a fan.  And there is no reason you have to miss anything this season even if you don't go to games.

If the Bengals go 4-1 and can't sellout a game against the Texans, what free agent would want to come to Cincinnati?

Rough guess of criteria free agents weigh when choosing a team:

1. Money
2. Money
3 - 7.  In no particular order some subjective factors like a) chance at winning a superbowl, b) liking the coaches/organization, c) liking the city itself, or d)family factors
...

100,929. Ability of team to sellout against Houston at home in week 6

Okay, so I'm being an a**hole.  I believe he's implying if the team has no fan support at games why would anyone want to play there?  First, that's a totally extreme and unreasonable scenario.  If support got crushed to the point where it was the defining characteristic of the organization, that would be exactly the point when changes of some sort would occur.  

Second, how would this lack of support make free agency any different for the team going forward than it has been in the past?  It's not like we even play the big free agent game much anyway.  We will always be able to get the Tank Johnson and Roy Williams of the world.  You can point to Coles but that was to replace a specific lost talent...not someone we went out to grab to add firepower.  And it's not like that $7 million a year is looking wisely allocated so far.

If I'm being really generous, maybe Kirkendall is even saying a lack of support will make the players try less hard.  Perhaps that's valid, but often when players feel embattled they develop that "us against them" or "nobody believed in us" mentality that inspires them.  The point is even if fans revolt against ownership, this does not mean the players will by default start to play worse too.  Especially when that revolt is trying to get the players the support they need in the front office and with facilities.

The economy is a factor. No one could possibly dispute that. However, Cincinnati doesn't have a monopoly in struggling economic metropolitans and, as Joe Reedy writes, 72 of 76 NFL games have sold out this year. And in Jacksonville's case, the interest just isn't there.  Is it the same thing here?

The extreme interest by fans in the Bengals is indisputable.  My guess is last season reminded lots of fans that got burned in the past that Mikey still ultimately remains in charge.  The bad economy both forced many buyers out of the market and gave plenty of others an excuse to do other things with their cash this year.

Is the interest just not there anymore or do the Bengals have to find a way to wipe out years of disaster with a decade-worth of playoff appearances through a full decade?

This sentence kind of gets it right but also horribly gets it wrong.  As I said, the interest is there.  NFL football matters in this town.  But folks are rightly skeptical.  And yes, they do have to wipe out the disaster they themselves created.  But only the 2nd good 5 game start to a season in 18 years will not be enough to win over people.  They will need to win consistently.  Will they need to have an entire decade straight of playoff appearances?  Of course not.  That is absurd.

Why would the team even bother if there's not going to be support?

Honor?  Pride?  Duty to the Community?

All kidding aside (we know those don't matter), the scary thing is that this question even needs to be asked after nearly 2 decades of support for an awful product.  A better question is why fans still bother after how they've been treated?  Mike Brown is not entitled to our damn support.  The onus is on him to earn it not on the fans to keep giving it blindly.  My rage level just increased 10 times writing this paragraph.

But I'll tell you why they'll bother.  Mike's not going anywhere with his lease and football is the only thing he knows (well, he thinks he knows it at least).  The team will not stop trying, in their own failed way, to field a winning team even in some hypothetical future where the fans have completely abandoned the team.  It's all the Brown Family has.

If Mike Brown were interested in making more money than winning, as so many believe, wouldn't he just cut costs here and there rather than fielding a winner? Where has he applied that logic in the years before the Marvin Lewis era?

People who believe Mike only cares about the bottom line do not understand the Bengals.  In fact, I have even argued Mike Brown leaves HUGE amounts of profitability on the table by running his team as if nothing has changed since 1970.  Mike Brown wants to win to be sure.  He just want to win HIS WAY.

The premise underlying the above statement is that the Bengals face significantly reduced revenue due to lack of fan support which will cause the Bengals to focus on cost-cutting instead of winning.

First, I suspect Mike cannot do much more material cost cutting.  The stadium is already free for him for the most part.  He has no significant front office costs.  He could save on coaches perhaps but not much else.  Remember, there is a salary floor too.  He cannot totally skimp on players. 

So if there is significant revenue reduction, the idea of WDR is he will face losses that no amount of cost cutting can make up for (revenue sharing will not cover it all).  Since he has no other sources of income, this will force change or Mike Brown will have to fund the losses out of his own pocket (ha!).

Second, and more importantly, Mike Brown has no history of fielding winners whether or not he has the financial means.  So who really cares about this point anyway? 

So no money comes from the gates, or the team loses sponsorship, then the team cuts costs. That's what every American business is doing right now. So then we're back to bad free agents acquisitions. We're back to having top-five draft picks every year which take a significant chunk of the team's payroll and in most cases, prevent good free agents from coming to town. We're back to being the Bungles.

Again, whether or not Mike Brown has the financial means to field a winner is a totally separate issue from his ability to field a winner.  And whether or not Mike Brown has the financial means to acquire free agents is a totally separate issue from his ability to bring in the right ones.  And what costs Mike Brown can cut from here that would make how he runs the team materially different from how things are run now are beyond me.

I also don't understand the huge fixation on free agency as there is no history of the Bengals building teams through free agency anyway - nor should there be.

(you can make a case for a Major League-type thing where they cut off heat/hot water in the locker room or fly to games in some crappy prop-plane, but we all saw the Browns charging the players for High Def tv in training camp, so I'd argue we're kind of there already)

My point is that hurting Mike Brown's bottom line has absolutely no guaranteed prospect that the Bengals will be anything but worse. 

And helping his bottom line has not done anything for the Bengals either.  The only difference between giving him money and not giving him money is that we already know what will happen when we give him money.  And there actually is evidence that when his profitability is threatened he does make changes.  The hiring and sharing of power with Marvin in 2003 is that evidence.

A general manager? No. They cost too much.

The idea is he has to hire one cause he's desperate and financially will fail.

A good head coach? They cost more. 

Unrelated to our cause.  We're fine with Marvin for the most part.  Good head coaches aren't necessarily expensive.

A scouting department? Forget about it.

Again, the idea is he has to make changes when he is staring at operating losses year after year.

Maybe I'm just conflicted. I'm all for change, and I've supported the Who Dey Revolution. On the other hand, the Bengals are 4-1 right now. They're at the top of the division. Why not enjoy it this year and see where they go? Why would you want to miss a playoff season if they make it?

You can still enjoy the season and not spend money on the team.  No one will miss anything if they go to the playoffs.  I feel like a broken record. 

Because of some preordained prophesy of hurting the owner's pockets will incite instant change? If that's the way it works, then good. Do your best.

Nothing is pre-ordained about WDR and our cause.  We might fail spectacularly.  The point is doing nothing and hoping things will get better has failed for 18 years.  WE ARE JUST TRYING TO DO SOMETHING, DAMMIT.  And it won't be instant change.  Two more seasons like last year might start to do it.  In fact, once Carson (and Zimmer?) is gone it may happen pretty quick.  But we don't want to wait until then and potentially squander Carson's entire career.  We want to pressure Mike Brown now.

Claiming all is well and buying tickets after just 5 games does not constitute pressure.

But our favorite team is 4-1. Our favorite team is leading the division. Our favorite team is doing things we haven't seen them do before.

I know.  It feels good.  But that's just because Mike Brown starved you and then threw you one cracker.  Never forget Mike free rides off your short memory and the taxpayers' back.

We understand where Cincy Jungle is coming from but nothing anyone has said convinces us that:

1. Not supporting the team financially makes you less of a fan or makes the season any less enjoyable
2. Not supporting the team financially will actually make the Bengals less successful in both the short and long run

Don't let anyone confuse you into thinking you can only support the Bengals by spending money on their tickets and merchandise.

Comments

[Michael]

I think people sometimes miss the point with Mike Brown. His fatal flaw is his stubborness above all else. He gets none of my money until he's willing to fundamentally change how the organization is run. Viva la Revoltuion!

[Rk]

Agree with you one hundred percent. I will support the team from somewhere in Indiana at a sports bar if it is blacked out. Or the other option is video games with the radio on...

[BENGALZ999]

All the time you spent on that..... Just sad....

You just keep repeating your followers points... blah..blah..blah....

Cold Hard Facts...

You preach to people about not buying tickets. I would pay good money to have you sit down with a player or coach of this team and explain your reasoning to them.

This site creates banter which I like to read... period. You are wasting your time. Please acknowlegde this. Your a small ripple in the ocean. Your like a labor union of 10 people who work for a 100,000 plus company.

Your a joke.

[Brian]

Show ME THE MONEY!!

[GregC78&69]

You know, you people that come here to poo poo the point of this site just don't get it.

I have been a Bengal fan from day one and have seen everything that has happened and is happening to this franchise. I held season ticket for about 6 years until they built the new stadium and decided at that point to quit lining MFB's pocket becaue I was basically pissing my money down the toilet, getting to see about 3 wins a year and got tired of driving from Dayton on home game Sunday's to watch what was being put on the field.

Yes, this year has been great so far, I love my Bengals, but I HATE they ownership. They have been very exciting to watch and have kept me on the edge of my seat every weekend and I cherish that, given how infrequently it has happened in the last 19years.

But here's the deal, you folks that show up here after a 4-1 start and start name calling and saying this site needs to be shut down and that the revolution is over, JUST DON'T FRICKIN GET IT!

4 wins does not erase the memory of the last 20 years for me or anyone here. Until MFB changes the way he runs this team there will be no sustained success for this team, there will be small blips of success, but nothing we can count on year after year. We love this team just as passionately and probably more than the name callers and opposers of the Revolution.

We want sustained success, not just a winning season every now and then. Remeber when Marvin got here? 8-8 felt like we had won the Super Bowl. How pathetic is that? And that is just what MFB wants, occasional success, just enought to bring the fannies back into the seats.

Quite frankly you people just dont get it, we don't wish bad things on the team, we want them to win as bad as anyone, we just want that to happen consistently and we want MFB and his nepotistic clan to change how the front office operates, we want them to operate like a real NFL franchise front office.

My advice to the haters and name callers and opposer to the Revolution;

GO TROLL SOMEWHERE ELSE!

¡Viva La Revolucion!

[Mockenrue]

The way the inflammatory anti-WDR posts have been piling up and becoming increasingly hostile and rude is leading me to wonder how many (if any) of them are written by non-Bengals fans just trying to incite anger and further fissures destabilizing the ultimate goal of seeing the Bengals as a consistent winning franchise.

I mean, if I'm a Steelers fan, I'm pulling for Mike Brown to continue as he always has. And therefore I'm hoping Bengals fans forget about his career as owner/GM over five weeks in 2009. And I'm threatened by the prospect of continued pressure from the fans to change the way he operates.

Not that I'm claiming there's a conspiracy, but it is food for thought. And remember, WDR supporters - you only hurt the cause by responding the venom with some of your own. Rise above.

[TKS]

Viva! I'm glad this is being said, but can't believe some of the short-sightedness around here. I will continue to support the Bengals (though not financially) and the revolution (it is possible to do both).

BENGALZ999 - why would we acknowledge something we don't believe? Not to attack you, but you won't acknowledge something you don't believe in (the boycott, in its infancy, is showing signs it may be working). As to your "small ripple in the ocean" analogy - that's how things start. Ever read Tolkien? "The journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step." The revolutionary road to change may be long, arduous, and fraught with non-believers, but that just makes the believers more strident in their beliefs.