A Friendly Reminder: WDR Focuses on the Long Term

While skimming some of the feedback on various sites regarding PM Task #9, poster "Tommy <3's Da Bengals" reminded me of one of my favorite stats that summarizes Mike Brown's failure as an owner:

Of Mike Brown's 101 wins, 71 have come in the 2nd half of the season.

If an enterprising reader can dig up the info, I'd love to see how many of those 2nd half wins came against opponents already eliminated from playoff contention (i.e., the game just didn't matter).  The point is that even the "wins" Mike Brown produces are typically of low quality.  That's the type of track record Mike Brown puts up when he's in control and doesn't have a franchise QB leading the team (also known as the "Pre-Marvin, Pre-Carson" Era). 

And this is what the Bengals will revert to when the Carson era ends if no changes are made (I believe he is more important than Marvin since Marvin does not have control like he used to).

This is why, even in a pre-season full of optimism, we still pull PM stunts.  We are rational and have a long memory.

Comments

[Thom Tadsen]

Wow, thanks. Ya that's in my sig over on the boards @ Bengals.com.

[Ryandg5]

This is where I lose your argument/synopsis - Mike Brown hired Marvin Lewis, and drafted Carson Palmer (the Franchise QB that is leading the team). So how can you completely ignore him credit on this, but then move forward to project that they will "revert" back when they no longer have a franchise QB? I hate giving MB any credit just as mich as the next guy, but this idea is just not rational at all . . .

[Thom Tadsen]

I've said it a 1000 times. The only difference between the Bengals now, and the Bengals in the 90's is Palmer. He is good for about 4 wins a year. He makes a 3 or 4 win team into 7 or 8 win team, or in the case of 2005, a 7 win team into a 11 win team.

[Capt. Steve-O]

I shudder every time I hear the phrase "when the Carson Palmer era is over". Can't believe he's pushing 30. I know he's got a few more years left in him (I hope)... and to think what he could have done on a team like the Giants, Cowboys, etc etc.

[Sleeping With Bieniemy]

Ryandg5 - let me help you understand.

1) It is my understanding that Mikey wanted to hire Tom Coughlin, not Marvin. However, things were so bad after the 2002 season, Katie and Troy told Mike to hire Marvin and take a back seat or they were done too. You can believe what you want to believe, but everyone I know who is close with the Browns say this is the jist of what happened in 2002. So Mike does not get credit for Marvin.

2) Mike Brown also did the following prior to landing Carson: a)ran Boomer out of town, b)drafted David Klinger, c)drafted Akili Smith and d)rotated terrible QBs for many other seasons. So the fact he got one QB decision right doesn't mean he deserves any credit. He was bound to land something decent after so many failed tries.

[kotw65]

Mike Brown was going to hire the then, offensive coordinator for the steelers Mike Mularkey.

Katie pleaded to go outside the box that mikey dwells in and he did and marvin was hired.

After this, mike mularkey was given the bills head coach position and was fired after two years.

Tom coughlin was a rumor only and was shot down quick because he requires more control of football operations and mike brown does not allow that.

[TigerJ@w]

Carson Palmer fell into MFB's lap because of yet another horrible season and someone wants to praise him because he drafted him??? Get Real!

Without Carson, well, you saw what this team looks like without Carson from last year and the sorry years with kINTna! What more else needs to be said. Every blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and then, except it takes MFB 1 out 13 years to find an acorn. We are only on year number 6 so we have 7 more years to go. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee I can't wait.

[Ryandg5]

Capt. Steve-O

Your first point begins "it is my understanding" and then goes on to tell a wonderful story about what was heard through the grapevine. This helps me understand nothing - in fact - are you telling me that Katie and Troy run the team - then if this is true, why are we blaming everything on Mikey Boy now? Just running in more circles

Second - just so we are clear - you are telling me that Carson Palmer was NOT a good draft pick by Mike BECAUSE his past picks were bad? Not the soundest of rationale.

I appreciate the enlightenment

[Sleeping With Bieniemy]

Ryandg5,

I'll say it more explicitly: Mike did not want to hire Marvin and his family members forced his hand. Yes, Mike will listen to his daughter and her husband if they threaten him. He wants to run this team with his family, not alone. This is the accepted truth of how the Marvin hiring unfolded. If you can provide evidence otherwise, then I'll consider it. But my guess is you can't, because there isn't any.

I, of course, believe Carson was a great draft pick. That is an entirely separate issue from giving Mike credit for it. Mike had tried and failed so many times with the QB situation that eventually one time it was bound to go in his favor. This is just basic probability. If it pleases you, I will give Mike Brown partial credit since he could have drafted any of Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller or Rex Grossman instead.

Glad I could enlighten you.

[LeeRoy Jenkins]

If you put Carson on any other team in the NFL (except maybe Detroit) for 6 seasons, they would have been to more than one playoffs. Likely 3+, and would have won multiple playoff games. How many QBs in the NFL are better than Carson? How many of them go 8-8 or 7-9 when healthy all year?

That is because Mike Brown is the worst owner/GM in all of sports. We are so lucky and fortunate to have Carson and Mike Brown is wasting his career. No other NFL team is wasting such a talent. Its really sad.

[Ryandg5]

I understand that I have strayed from that path of my initial point, and I apologize for that - I just have a hard time taking the "accepted truth" on how the team is run as fact (you speak as though you personally had dinner with the man last night). You ask me to provide evidence, yet you provide none - therefore, as far as I am concerned it is all hearsay. What is boils down too, is that simply taking a team's best player/era and throwing it out the window, and then presenting the numbers makes no sense. Now, if our owner had no hand, whatsoever, in Marvin and Carson then I would say it makes sense to take those numbers out. The man is clearly a terrible owner, it just seems that twisting numbers so that they support the argument is not the best way to gain support

[Sleeping With Bieniemy]

Here's an old Paul Daugherty article that addresses the issue:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/bengals/2003-01-15-lewis-comment_x.htm

Key line: "Lewis' hiring also shows a shift in the balance of the Bengals front office power. By most accounts, Lewis was Katie and Troy Blackburn's guy."

Paul, unlike us here, is a journalist with many a reliable source and has to have his articles checked before they are published. Apparently enough sources confirmed this that he felt okay running with it. Trust me, we try to get Paul to run all sorts of things we say and he tells us not unless we back it up. He won't just print anything.

Those who I know who are close personal friends of the Blackburns have also corroborated this story - so I guess it's more like my friends who just had dinner with the Brown Family, not me.

Most teams' baseline win figures, even in times when they lack a franchise player, don't come in at around 3/4 wins a year. Just look at the Bengals seasons from 1991-2002, it is literally disgusting. I cant think of a team that has put up a stretch like that outside of maybe Arizona.

[Mr. X]

How much credit for wisdom do you really deserve if you hold the number one overall draft pick, and use it to select the consensus franchise-player, top choice of the year's available prospects?

[Robinsgr]

Mr. X,

Excellent point. Carson was the obvious number one pick in the draft, and was head-and-shoulders better than anyone else available. Number one on every draft board. Even if he had failed, MB would not have been criticized for the pick outside of Cincinnati because everyone else would have made the same choice in that situation. How could anyone give him credit for this pick?

MB has spent three first-round picks at QB and only succeeded when it was a no-brainer. He passed on Troy Vincent to take Klingler, and took Smith instead of the nine or so draft picks New Orleans offered for the pick. He is a failure.

I would also like to mention that, when the Bengals were looking for a head coach before hiring Marvin, one of the local radio stations had stated that, during Coughlin's second interview with the team, he had presented his plan for the team to MB, which included beefing up the scouting department to include 16 scouts. The station reported that he was removed from the short list because MB felt he was overstepping his bounds by trying to tell MB how to run the front office. If this is true or not, I don't know. But I remember hearing the report.

[williamsgevoort]

how stupid do you have to be to try to stick up for mike brown??

[TigerJ@w]

I cannot believe you guys have not talked about MFB's Annual State of the Union Address. You know, the time where he comes out of his dark hole and speaks about the team and how he makes money, well, here it is....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuxvCcJGUcU

[Capt. Steve-O]

Ryandg,

that wasn't my comment, dude. Mine was above lamenting the fact that our franchise quarterback is turning 30 this year with 1 minute of post-season field time.